[Memphis SS]

I agree the 6 cylinder model is a great car. I think if relates well to the models offered in the 60s when the Camaro was first introduced. The V6 has always been a really good daily sport model, the SS V8 continues to be the entry level Muscle Car and the Z/28 or ZL1 is the higher end Muscle Car model.

Muscle cars have always been about taking a sedan or coupe and putting a high horsepower V8 under the hood. If you watch the History Channel or the show called "Cars That Made America" there is a very good episode on how the Muscle Car came to be and really good information from the guys that design them.. V6 was not part of that vision as a muscle car but more of a daily driver more fuel efficient offering.

I'm not knocking the V6 group I think GM, Ford and Dodge did their job by making sure everyone looking had a model that fit their needs.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

1971 Camaro Z-28
MSRP $3,634 (2017 MSRP $22,044)
275 HP @ 5600 RPM (Net)
300 LB-FT @ 4000 RPM (Net)
4-Speed Manual
Length 188.0"
Width 74.4"
Height 50.5"
Wheelbase 108.0"
Curb Weight 3,310 lbs
0-60 mph 5.8 sec
¼ mile 14.2 sec @ 100.3 mph

2017 Camaro 2.0T
MSRP $25,905
275 HP @ 5500 RPM
295 LB-FT @ 3000-4500 RPM
6-Speed Manual
Length 188.3"
Width 74.7"
Height 53.1"
Wheelbase 110.7"
Curb Weight 3,354 lbs
0-60 mph 5.4 sec
¼ mile 14.0 sec @ 100.0 mph

It seems similar to an old school driving experience.

With full respect I would have to disagree.. I know on paper that it looks like the new V6 or 4T would give you the same driving experience but I can tell you from being behind the wheel of both old and new it is not.

I'm in my 50s and been very blessed to have owned several Muscle cars
1975 1976 1979 Trans AM, 1982 Z/28, 1996 and 2004 Corvette, 2011 Camaro SS and the 2017 Camaro SS over the years

I drove a 442 Olds from the 70s and my buddy restored a 1966 Mustang GT350 as well as several other buddies muscle cars when I was younger. While the new Camaro V6 is a nice car and meets the specs. It by know means has the feel of torque and punch that the old school big V8s had.

Again Not knocking the V6 it is a very good motor and model but it not the same experience of a old school Muscle car.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

With full respect I would have to disagree.. I know on paper that it looks like the new V6 or 4T would give you the same driving experience but I can tell you from being behind the wheel of both old and new it is not.

I'm in my 50s and been very blessed to have owned several Muscle cars
1975 1976 1979 Trans AM, 1982 Z/28, 1996 and 2004 Corvette, 2011 Camaro SS and the 2017 Camaro SS over the years

I drove a 442 Olds from the 70s and my buddy restored a 1966 Mustang GT350 as well as several other buddies muscle cars when I was younger. While the new Camaro V6 is a nice car and meets the specs. It by know means has the feel of torque and punch that the old school big V8s had.

Again Not knocking the V6 it is a very good motor and model but it not the same experience of a old school Muscle car.

The comparison made was with the 2.0T, which of course won't have the punch and torque feel of the original Z28, but on the other hand will have an improved driving experience in almost every other regard.

The modern SS provides the punch and torque feel, but is even more improved in almost every regard, distancing it even further from the original driving experience... and thus transforming it from muscle car to sports car.

[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

...While the new Camaro V6 is a nice car and meets the specs. It by know means has the feel of torque and punch that the old school big V8s had.

Again Not knocking the V6 it is a very good motor and model but it not the same experience of a old school Muscle car.

I think you also have to keep in mind that the 'feel of torque and punch' and 'experience of old school Muscle' is more than just the engine. I am by no means an expert, but I have driven a 1971 442 W30 and a 1970 Chevelle, and it seemed to me the steering, tires, suspension and transmissions of those cars added alot to the 'experience.' It was much harder to control the power of those older cars, and I'm not sure it was ONLY due to the high HP or torque. The feel I got driving those cars was I could very easily end up going sideways if I wasn't careful. Hypothetically, if someone put one of those old V8s into a modern Camaro, or a new V8 into a old school muscle car, would the engine difference alone vastly change the driving characteristics?

[Wyzz Kydd]

Interesting question. I grew up in that era and drove/owned some of those cars. Without actually doing it it’s conjecture but I suspect a vintage engine in a newer car would handle about the same as stock newer cars assuming weights weren’t to different and the nanny’s still worked. Drop a new engine in a vintage muscle car and I think you get vintage handling assuming again that weight/balance isn’t dramatically changed. Drop a ZL1 into a late 60s Camaro and I think all but the most experienced drivers end up in the ditch if they get to frisky. Of course your tires might blow up and your brakes can’t really handle it either.

Yesterday coming home from a match I got into the throttle a bit on a very slightly damp road and spun the tires at about 65 mph. Vintage cars by and large couldn’t do that despite having crap tires compared what we have today.

Makes me think of my twin turbo RX7, the line between everything is fine and pucker factor 1000 was very fine, the same for a Porsche 911T. Not true for a newer Camaro SS which has much more linear handling.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

I think you also have to keep in mind that the 'feel of torque and punch' and 'experience of old school Muscle' is more than just the engine. I am by no means an expert, but I have driven a 1971 442 W30 and a 1970 Chevelle, and it seemed to me the steering, tires, suspension and transmissions of those cars added alot to the 'experience.' It was much harder to control the power of those older cars, and I'm not sure it was ONLY due to the high HP or torque. The feel I got driving those cars was I could very easily end up going sideways if I wasn't careful. Hypothetically, if someone put one of those old V8s into a modern Camaro, or a new V8 into a old school muscle car, would the engine difference alone vastly change the driving characteristics?

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

I think you also have to keep in mind that the 'feel of torque and punch' and 'experience of old school Muscle' is more than just the engine. I am by no means an expert, but I have driven a 1971 442 W30 and a 1970 Chevelle, and it seemed to me the steering, tires, suspension and transmissions of those cars added alot to the 'experience.' It was much harder to control the power of those older cars, and I'm not sure it was ONLY due to the high HP or torque. The feel I got driving those cars was I could very easily end up going sideways if I wasn't careful. Hypothetically, if someone put one of those old V8s into a modern Camaro, or a new V8 into a old school muscle car, would the engine difference alone vastly change the driving characteristics?

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Actually I would agree with that is does add but I'm talking the V8 feel and torque of the old muscle car comparing it to the new V6 which makes most it's TQ in the higher RPM range.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

The comparison made was with the 2.0T, which of course won't have the punch and torque feel of the original Z28, but on the other hand will have an improved driving experience in almost every other regard.

The modern SS provides the punch and torque feel, but is even more improved in almost every regard, distancing it even further from the original driving experience... and thus transforming it from muscle car to sports car.

I don't think the new Camaro V6 to a 2.0T falls under old school experience compared to the old V8. JMHO

Also The Camaro is NOT a Sports Car. It is a Muscle car that was designed for speed and track use, as in back in the day when GM built the 302 for the Trans Am Series tracks.

A Corvette is a Sports Car.

I would recommend you spend some time at some car events get to know a few people with some classics and drive some old cars with V8s. It's a lot of fun..

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Also The Camaro is NOT a Sports Car. It is a Muscle car that was designed for speed and track use, as in back in the day when GM built the 302 for the Trans Am Series tracks.

A Corvette is a Sports Car.

I would recommend you spend some time at some car events get to know a few people with some classics and drive some old cars with V8s. It's a lot of fun..

Why, because you say so?

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Also The Camaro is NOT a Sports Car.

What?!

If I had to guess, most would disagree with you. The 6th Gen Camaro is not a muscle car, it’s a pony car, which is a sports car. The same classification is made for the Mustang.

The Challenger is a muscle car.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I don't think the new Camaro V6 to a 2.0T falls under old school experience compared to the old V8. JMHO

Also The Camaro is NOT a Sports Car. It is a Muscle car that was designed for speed and track use, as in back in the day when GM built the 302 for the Trans Am Series tracks.

A Corvette is a Sports Car.

I would recommend you spend some time at some car events get to know a few people with some classics and drive some old cars with V8s. It's a lot of fun..

That's an extremely outdated point of view

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by ecko04

What?!

If I had to guess, most would disagree with you. The 6th Gen Camaro is not a muscle car, it’s a pony car, which is a sports car. The same classification is made for the Mustang.

The Challenger is a muscle car.

Yes, the Challenger is the last muscle car. Manufacturers, auto journalists and the majority of owners recognize the current Mustang and Camaro as sports cars.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

With full respect I would have to disagree.. I know on paper that it looks like the new V6 or 4T would give you the same driving experience but I can tell you from being behind the wheel of both old and new it is not.

I'm in my 50s and been very blessed to have owned several Muscle cars
1975 1976 1979 Trans AM, 1982 Z/28, 1996 and 2004 Corvette, 2011 Camaro SS and the 2017 Camaro SS over the years

I drove a 442 Olds from the 70s and my buddy restored a 1966 Mustang GT350 as well as several other buddies muscle cars when I was younger. While the new Camaro V6 is a nice car and meets the specs. It by know means has the feel of torque and punch that the old school big V8s had.

Again Not knocking the V6 it is a very good motor and model but it not the same experience of a old school Muscle car.

Most of the old school muscle cars you speak of will lose a stoplight dragrace to a new Honda Odyssey minivan. I’ve driven both being in my 40’s and I still prefer a higher revving modern car over a low rpm torque monster.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Why, because you say so?

Nope, because the last GM event I was at that's how the engineers referred to the car but I guess the guys that designed it don't know what they built