[ZRacerLE]

I'd have no problem daily driving and tracking an I4 or V6 1LE.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Actually, I heard it’s a 2.0T. For him it seems the chassis and suspension are the reasons for purchase and he went with the lightest weight engine so that he could concentrate on the physics.

I think you’re right.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I never saw that one. Nice, It settles the tire difference discussions somewhat.

But does it settle the Mustang track trans and diff overheating reviews? Did they stay on the track long enough to really test that?

I also thought that the comments about enjoying the tracking more in the ever so slightly slower Mustang was interesting. So if the Mustang was more fun did the faster time really matter? To me the Mustang won the comparison if it was more fun to track. The lap times was almost splitting hairs, at least to most drivers. Fun versus bragging rights?

I already knew the drag race results. No stock coyote M6 ever beat my stock '16 SS at Atco. I am not sure why that is unless the M6 does not keep the Mustang engine in the power band enough to keep up, even the newer ones.

I can understand the Coyote engine being fun to track. Similar to the Voodoo, shifting at 7,500 rpm, as opposed to the Camaro’s 6,000 rpm, would be a lot of fun. Especially if the car was on loan to you so the long term consequences don’t matter.

The trade off is that the Coyote doesn’t come alive until 4,000 rpm so it’s moot point ...but significant on the street where the LT1 is all there off idle. Also significant is that Ford didn’t design the PP2 to be a track car so it’s ability to be used on the track is intentionally limited.

The LT1 / Tremec combination is proven to be bulletproof. You can’t say that about the Coyote / MT82. The SS 1LE is the most complete package available from ant manufacturer in gen6 ...at a bargain msrp under $44k.

Fun versus bragging rights? Ford is all about a about a one lap headline. The PP2 and 2015-2016 GT350 show how willing they are to cut corners while putting forth an image.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The situation with Camaro is even better than that!

The SS is fully track capably and is warrantied for that the same as the 1LE's and ZL1.

1SS starting MSRP is $37,995 with the following standard features
- 6.2L 455 hp / 455 lb-ft, 8.1 lbs/hp
- Tremec 6-speed manual transmission with Active Rev Matching
- Brembo brakes with four-piston front and rear calipers with cooling ducts
- Heavy duty auxiliary engine cooling
- Transmission and differential coolers
- 20-inch wheels with Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 run-flat summer-only tires
- Alpha platform. Exceptional chassis strength and rigidity

What would cup2s do for the SS?

Compared to the PP1?
Compared to the PP2 ...on it’s fourth lap?

What if the SS is optioned with the Chevrolet Performance front 6-piston Brembo® brake upgrade system?

- $3,175 SS Brembo brake upgrade (msrp $40,170)
- $5,195 Performance Package 1 (msrp $42,020)

Physics
- 3685 lbs : 1SS manual w/20” 245/275 summer performance tires
- 3743 lbs : GT w/ 18” 235 all season tires
- 3850 lbs : Bullitt w/ 19” 255/275 summer performance tires

Fuel capacity
- 19 gallons : Camaro
- 16 gallons : Mustang

Originally Posted by hotlap

The results from the two H2H with the SS and SS 1LE give some perspective.

Streets of Willow

01:20.67 - 2018 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE
01:22.94 - 2015 BMW M4
01:23.15 - 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS (2SS)
01:23.97 - 2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...let-camaro-ss/

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...ck-comparison/

https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us...2020.tab1.html

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...-techspecs.pdf

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I can understand the Coyote engine being fun to track. Similar to the Voodoo, shifting at 7,500 rpm, as opposed to the Camaro’s 6,000 rpm, would be a lot of fun. Especially if the car was on loan to you so the long term consequences don’t matter.

The trade off is that the Coyote doesn’t come alive until 4,000 rpm so it’s moot point ...but significant on the street where the LT1 is all there off idle. Also significant is that Ford didn’t design the PP2 to be a track car so it’s ability to be used on the track is intentionally limited.

The LT1 / Tremec combination is proven to be bulletproof. You can’t say that about the Coyote / MT82. The SS 1LE is the most complete package available from ant manufacturer in gen6 ...at a bargain msrp under $44k.

Fun versus bragging rights? Ford is all about a about a one lap headline. The PP2 and 2015-2016 GT350 show how willing they are to cut corners while putting forth an image.

The point is are we tracking these cars to have the fastest time by a split second or are we doing it to go fast And have fun? More fun = win to me. The Mustang is a great car also. But the superior chassis of the Camaro is the main difference at the track. And here maybe the SS1LE having the ZL1 base setup may just be a little too light for the setup to be as effective (and fun) on the lighter car. But we are splitting hairs to say one is faster than the other. And perhaps the Mustang might be a little faster for anyone without Randy's mad track skills.

[jvandy50]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The point is are we tracking these cars to have the fastest time by a split second or are we doing it to go fast And have fun? More fun = win to me. The Mustang is a great car also. But the superior chassis of the Camaro is the main difference at the track. And here maybe the SS1LE having the ZL1 base setup may just be a little too light for the setup to be as effective (and fun) on the lighter car. But we are splitting hairs to say one is faster than the other. And perhaps the Mustang might be a little faster for anyone without Randy's mad track skills.

I will err on the side of fun 110% of the time lol. The zl1 is more fun on the streets to me, but there’s no denying what ford did with the 350 and its drivetrain is pretty cool on track...although still just me personally, i dig the alpha chassis on track also.

At the track attack event ford put on, you can almost leave the 350 in 3rd gear the entire time...pretty sure they do this purposefully for all the new guys.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The point is are we tracking these cars to have the fastest time by a split second or are we doing it to go fast And have fun? More fun = win to me. The Mustang is a great car also. But the superior chassis of the Camaro is the main difference at the track. And here maybe the SS1LE having the ZL1 base setup may just be a little too light for the setup to be as effective (and fun) on the lighter car. But we are splitting hairs to say one is faster than the other. And perhaps the Mustang might be a little faster for anyone without Randy's mad track skills.

Fun is the objective. Where is the PP2 Coyote fun?
- The track ...where you can keep the engine in that sweet 4,000 to 7,500 rpm range.

What isn’t the PP2?
- A track car ...as stated in Ford’s press release and evident by that lack of cooling for the track.

Is the non-track car PP2 covered by warranty if you blow your engine on the track?
- Ford = it’s not a track car.

Like is said, it would be great fun to drive balls out keeping it in the 4,000 to 7,500 rpm range. I can’t do that on the street - where the PP2 is designated to live by Ford.

Poof - fun gone - the fun is an illusion.

[BlaqWhole]

I'd rather win. Even if it's by a split second. Losing is not fun at all.

BTW, I thought RP was given that Camaro. Isn't that what all the fuss was about with the Mustang guys claiming he was bought off by GM and was sandbagging the Mustnag??

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'd rather win. Even if it's by a split second. Losing is not fun at all.

BTW, I thought RP was given that Camaro. Isn't that what all the fuss was about with the Mustang guys claiming he was bought off by GM and was sandbagging the Mustnag??

From my understanding - he bought it himself.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

4200lbs + 760hp + 180 treadware tires, they're gonna fall off quickly. It's basic math. Ford knew you get a couple hero laps on these Michelins and then they start to fall off. They're chasing the fastest lap time, whether its 10 laps or one.

pretty much sums it up, brevity is the heat of wit.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'd rather win. Even if it's by a split second. Losing is not fun at all.

BTW, I thought RP was given that Camaro. Isn't that what all the fuss was about with the Mustang guys claiming he was bought off by GM and was sandbagging the Mustnag??

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

From my understanding - he bought it himself.

The bold part....

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

I would take Randy Pobst's opinions on the Alpha chassis cars being the best over these guy's opinon for track fun any day of the week...just saying...ones a dedicated professional race car driver and track aficionado and the others guys are not even in the same hemisphere, being respectful of their opinions of course but I'll side with Randy on this.

This. Also most video reviews have some give and take to have positive things to say about both cars and have a fun video for both "camps". You'll notice that watching their channel they reference the ss 1le plenty, I've never heard them reference the pp2 though.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Concerning tires and track, this is not so. Seat time is the best mod for 99% of the HPDE crowd. Advanced drivers are able to exploit the performance limits of a vehicle. Hence, tires will typically provide the biggest improvement for these folks.

Seat time is not a performance modification, but thanks for giving everyone the politically correct HPDE noob answer.

Yes seat time is of the greatest importance to know what you are doing out there, but I will bet even a novice with 5 track days will knock off more time with a set of R comps vs running 5 more days on all seasons. Is that the correct way to go about it? Absolutely not.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The point is are we tracking these cars to have the fastest time by a split second or are we doing it to go fast And have fun? More fun = win to me. The Mustang is a great car also. But the superior chassis of the Camaro is the main difference at the track. And here maybe the SS1LE having the ZL1 base setup may just be a little too light for the setup to be as effective (and fun) on the lighter car. But we are splitting hairs to say one is faster than the other. And perhaps the Mustang might be a little faster for anyone without Randy's mad track skills.

I don't see how a car with worse handing can be more fun on a track. Unless your fun is drifting or driving harder to go slower?

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Have you thought about Castrol SRF? It's more expensive, but it has a higher wet boiling point, so a lot of guys who use this can get away with changing the brake fluid once or twice a year, rather than every event.

I have considered it. I bought a supply of the Motul and still have some. Needless to say, I am not doing much tracking, at all, now.