[timesublime]

Toyota's CEO was demoted because he was not on board with full EV.


A pioneer of green automobiles in 1997 with the introduction of its hybrid Prius, the company has increasingly fended off criticism over the pace at which it has pursued fully-electric vehicles, playing catch-up to newcomers such as Tesla.

[HemiDave]

Matt Maran Motoring discussing the new V8 GM is developing.


https://youtu.be/PUg3n614gaM

[Casper the friendly G]

[MPowered]

The smart money is on having petrol cars available to fall back on if the EV plan goes awry. Ideally, we should have gas, hybrid to transition slowly out of gas, some sort of alternate fuel like hydrogen based, and EV. I don't see how having majority EVs are going to work. The grid can't handle it, and not everyone live in or near a city with plenty of charging stations.

I was waitching some automotive show that I forget but they were testing one of the new Ford EV trucks, and they got 100 miles range when the truck was used like a typical work truck hauling heavy stuff. That's one of the things that EV people don't tell you; EV mileage range sucks when it's stressed. It's like when an Tesla Plaid S can put down a sub 10 second 1/4 mile. Oh yeah, how many times can that car do it in a row? A work truck will have over 30 gallon tank and even if you get 8 mpg, you can still squeeze over 250 miles range out of it. EVs, not so much.

[Casper the friendly G]

Originally Posted by MPowered

The smart money is on having petrol cars available to fall back on if the EV plan goes awry. Ideally, we should have gas, hybrid to transition slowly out of gas, some sort of alternate fuel like hydrogen based, and EV. I don't see how having majority EVs are going to work. The grid can't handle it, and not everyone live in or near a city with plenty of charging stations.

I was waitching some automotive show that I forget but they were testing one of the new Ford EV trucks, and they got 100 miles range when the truck was used like a typical work truck hauling heavy stuff. That's one of the things that EV people don't tell you; EV mileage range sucks when it's stressed. It's like when an Tesla Plaid S can put down a sub 10 second 1/4 mile. Oh yeah, how many times can that car do it in a row? A work truck will have over 30 gallon tank and even if you get 8 mpg, you can still squeeze over 250 miles range out of it. EVs, not so much.

EVs are dirty system. Dirty to manufacture and dirty to recycle, in fact much of it can not be recycled and becomes a toxic waste. Large vaults will need to be built to house the toxic batteries to keep the toxicity out of the soil and waterways. EVs are a joke.

[Stihl]

For a very informative conversation that lays out EV and power grid issues, go to youtube and search "which uses more electricity...a refrigerator when it is running or an electric car when it is charging?"

[Casper the friendly G]

Originally Posted by Stihl

For a very informative conversation that lays out EV and power grid issues, go to youtube and search "which uses more electricity...a refrigerator when it is running or an electric car when it is charging?"

[Martinjlm]

The typical 4 person household uses @ 10,700 kWh of electricity /year.
The typical EV (current generation) uses @ 4,000 kWh of electricity / year. I say current generation because that figure improves on a monthly basis.
The high side estimate of electricity pricing (home) is $0.25 / kWh.

An electric vehicle charging only at peak rates would cost 4,000 x 0.25 = $1,000 additional home electricity cost per year.

For an ICE driving 15,000 miles / year at $3 /gallon with a car that gets 20 mpg, the total cost of gasoline for a year would be 15,000/20 x 3 = $2,250

Of course the math is easy if you adjust for gasoline mileage, miles driven, price of gasoline.

For my SRX it would look something like 9,000/17 x 3 = $1,588
For my Camaro it would be about 7,500 / 15 x 3 = $1,500 (note that the mpg and price are E85)
For my MR2 it would be about 7,500 / 20 x 4.25 = $1, 594

[indyz]

Assuming electricity costs dont go up......

Gas & electric costs might go up in the future.

I drive about 5000-7000 miles a year between all my cars. If you drive 30K+ miles a year per car, it makes more sense (back of the napkin math). Even at 30K+ miles, it will take many years to recover the extra outlay, especially if you already own ICE cars that are only 3-5 years old.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The typical 4 person household uses @ 10,700 kWh of electricity /year.
The typical EV (current generation) uses @ 4,000 kWh of electricity / year. I say current generation because that figure improves on a monthly basis.
The high side estimate of electricity pricing (home) is $0.25 / kWh.

An electric vehicle charging only at peak rates would cost 4,000 x 0.25 = $1,000 additional home electricity cost per year.

For an ICE driving 15,000 miles / year at $3 /gallon with a car that gets 20 mpg, the total cost of gasoline for a year would be 15,000/20 x 3 = $2,250

Of course the math is easy if you adjust for gasoline mileage, miles driven, price of gasoline.

For my SRX it would look something like 9,000/17 x 3 = $1,588
For my Camaro it would be about 7,500 / 15 x 3 = $1,500 (note that the mpg and price are E85)
For my MR2 it would be about 7,500 / 20 x 4.25 = $1, 594

National Grid here is $0.48 per kWh… so claiming $0.25 per kWh is the *high side* is silly as it’s literally HALF the regular going rate. So the cost to operate the EV is double what you posted and more expensive than many ICE vehicles. The good news here is anyone can easily check their own utility prices and decide what’s best for them.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by indyz

Assuming electricity costs dont go up......

Gas & electric costs might go up in the future.

I drive about 5000-7000 miles a year between all my cars. If you drive 30K+ miles a year per car, it makes more sense (back of the napkin math). Even at 30K+ miles, it will take many years to recover the extra outlay, especially if you already own ICE cars that are only 3-5 years old.

30k isn't all the same. Some may be all work commuting, nearby trips. Some may be 5k commuting, 25k weekend trips, without destination charging. Trips are where EV negatives show easily (ignoring fun car preference).

EV motors aren't going to get much more efficient. That matters for time saving (related to charging). Aero drag increases at the square of speed.

Combustion engines usually put in overdrive, below peak (brake specific) efficiency. Speed up to 85 mph, no big deal.

Electric motors hit peak power rpm before peak efficiency rpm. An EV geared for a 65 mph cruise moving to an 85 cruise will be past peak range and efficiency. It must draw much more.

There is the electric thread also. I am hoping this thread goes back to next engine/next gen ideas.

[FRANK121]

"Assuming electricity costs don't go up......

Gas & electric costs might go up in the future."

Electricity cost is going to double if not triple once the coal plants are shut down. This is all about who has investments in the EV productions. Wake up people!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

National Grid here is $0.48 per kWh… so claiming $0.25 per kWh is the *high side* is silly as it’s literally HALF the regular going rate. So the cost to operate the EV is double what you posted and more expensive than many ICE vehicles. The good news here is anyone can easily check their own utility prices and decide what’s best for them.

Interesting. You’re paying $0.48 when the state average is $0.29, compared to a national average of $0.23. $0.29 is higher than what I suggested as high end, but nowhere near what you quoted. How are your gas prices in relation to what I posted? Are they also higher than Massachusetts state average? That also obviously impacts the equation.

I’m seeing $3.39 for 87 octane. I modeled it at $3.00.

I’m seeing $2.69 for E85. I modeled it at $3.00

I’m seeing $4.49 for 93 octane. I modeled it at $4.25.

[DaveC113]

It would also be nice if the EV folks would pay their fair share of taxes, this has gone unaddressed thus far.