[mlee]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Al,
I'm interested in upgrading the 1SS base suspension to be closer to the 1SS 1LE. Can we get some comparison data (lap times) and your thoughts to help make this decision, including any recommendations for OEM wheel/tire combination upgrades to work best with each kit.

Kits:
1. SS lowering kit (springs/shocks-84188726) + handling kit (swaybars/front links-84242386)
2. SS 1LE suspension kit with MRC cal update (not applicable to my specific car)
3. ZL1 1LE suspension kit (both 84352121 and 84352119)

I'm leaning toward this combination of parts to get as close as possible to an SS 1LE: SS lowering kit (springs/shocks-84188726) + handling kit (swaybars/front links-84242386) + SS 1LE wheels/tires

However, before making a final decision, I'm really interested in you and your team's thoughts and recommendations and what the performance #s would look like between the different options.

Existing literature states:
- SS lowering/handling kit (springs/shocks-84188726) + handling kit (swaybars/front links-84242386) provides a 1.6s lap time reduction on Milford Proving Grounds Autocross course.
- ZL1 1LE combo noted above provides a 1.8s lap time reduction at Milford Proving Ground NE course on an SS.

Answer:

[mlee]

This thread was caught up in the database repairs and was completely lost.

There were many great comments posted and I encourage everyone to re-post

[Crim]

This is unbelievable!!!

The lengths they went through to answer this question.

Kudos to Team Camaro...

[vtirocz]

Al & team: THANK YOU!!! This is exactly the level of detail I was hoping for and far beyond what I was expecting when I posted this question. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to provide actual lap time data to help make this decision.

Here's some things that stand out to me:
• The SS 1LE is 8.5s faster than the non-1LE on a ~2 minute course. WOW! I thought they would be much closer.
• The lowering/handling kit alone provides a much bigger benefit than I was expecting and gets you about 55% of the performance benefit of the 1LE package.
• The lowering/handling kit + SS 1LE wheel/tires get you about 77% of the performance of the 1LE package.
• I was expecting a much bigger benefit with the ZL1 1LE suspension kits on the road course. I guess you need the ZL1 1LE wheels/tires to reap the benefit of that stiff suspension setup. This also highlights that it's important to match the tires to the suspension tuning and that stiffer isn't always better (for a given tire choice).

The lowering/handling kit + SS 1LE wheel/tire seems like the sweet spot for what I’m looking for and would work perfectly in my goal of creating a "budget SS 1LE." Actually, the lowering/handling kit alone may be enough! Either way, it's nice to have data to make this decision. The lowering/handling kit combined goes for around $1500 depending on the vendor and SS 1LE (or similar) OEM wheels could be had for probably ~$1500-1800 used and $~2200 brand new if I remember correctly.

I do have some follow-up questions in mind:
• If shocks from the lowering kit wear out down the road, can those be purchased separately? If so, what's the GM part #? I assume they can be since you can order new ones with this option (though it might be dealer installed).
• Can the tire size be changed in the body control module (assuming that's where that info is stored) to reflect the SS 1LE size, so that the speedometer will be accurate and the stability/traction control will have accurate feedback?

Last question. Al, is your team hiring engineers?

[Redlinez]

This thread probably ended me waiting for Bilstein to come out with shocks to pair with other springs. GM truly proved how much they care about actually improving performance, not just looks and saying it improves performance like most aftermarket manufacturers claim. For about $1500 you can have springs, shocks, and sway bars and transform the car. I just wish there was one to ride in near me as I don't want to hate daily driving my SS. Been there and done that.

[kropscamaro16]

Originally Posted by Redlinez

This thread probably ended me waiting for Bilstein to come out with shocks to pair with other springs. GM truly proved how much they care about actually improving performance, not just looks and saying it improves performance like most aftermarket manufacturers claim. For about $1500 you can have springs, shocks, and sway bars and transform the car. I just wish there was one to ride in near me as I don't want to hate daily driving my SS. Been there and done that.

haha i already have the hyperco and afe power swaybars just waiting on bilstein or somebody to release some shocks

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Redlinez

This thread probably ended me waiting for Bilstein to come out with shocks to pair with other springs. GM truly proved how much they care about actually improving performance, not just looks and saying it improves performance like most aftermarket manufacturers claim. For about $1500 you can have springs, shocks, and sway bars and transform the car. I just wish there was one to ride in near me as I don't want to hate daily driving my SS. Been there and done that.

At the last Camaro Fest, I talked to the GMPP guy there (Jordan?) and suggested they have cars available for a "ride and drive." Since I was interested in the suspension kits he gave me his # and offered to meet up before the Saturday night festivities / car show. I had my kids with me (still on booster seats) so it wasn't practical for me to take him up on the offer.

I agree though, it would be really nice for them to have demo's available to actually experience what you're about to buy. Without that, we just need to rely on feedback from others who have the kit.

[JeffFox]

Very much appreciated. Looking forward to learning even more with this thread. Al and team Camaro rock!

[Airfuel]

Still wondering how the base SS with MR stacks up against the rest.

[DC5]

This post genuinely makes me proud to be a Camaro owner! Thank you, Camaro Team!

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Airfuel

Still wondering how the base SS with MR stacks up against the rest.

I wanted to see this as well from the Camaro team, but they had to draw the line somewhere for this question.

MotorTrend tested both and seemed to like the base suspension (though not sure if they were able to test them back to back):

"This Camaro SS is the 2SS model. Even though it’s about $9K pricier than the 1SS model we tested for Car of the Year, we don’t like it as much. Objectively, the performance is almost identical. Look at the figure-eight times. Both ran a 24.1-second lap. However, both Cammisa and I preferred the ride and handling from the fixed suspension on the 1SS to the adjustable magnetorheological dampers on the 2SS. We also both preferred the way the Camaro tore up a ribbon of asphalt compared to the M4."

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...let-camaro-ss/

Base suspension road tests from MT:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2016...t-test-review/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...rd-mustang-gt/

I suspect if tested back to back on track (full tracks, not just instrumented tests like figure 8 and skidpad), the MRC car will edge out the base suspension car, but not sure how significant it would be. The really nice thing about the MRC suspension is that if you want something even more capable, you can upgrade to the SS 1LE suspension / tune pretty inexpensively (https://www.shopchevyparts.com/perfo...-92294543.html).

[red6.2]

ouch, i guess i will never better be faster than a 1le even modded. and that was a 2ss 1le. I wonder how much faster a 1ss 1le is than a 2ss 1le?

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by red6.2

ouch, i guess i will never better be faster than a 1le even modded. and that was a 2ss 1le. I wonder how much faster a 1ss 1le is than a 2ss 1le?

1SS 1LE vs. 2SS 1LE weight difference is pretty small -- around 33 lb. Main differences are tech related. I'd call that essentially negligible. I'm assuming all weights published are with a full tank of gas which is typically standard procedure for magazines.

1SS 1LE (3747 lb) C&D article: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ed-test-review
2SS 1LE (3780 lb) R&T article: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=602644

[mlee]

Originally Posted by red6.2

ouch, i guess i will never better be faster than a 1le even modded. and that was a 2ss 1le. I wonder how much faster a 1ss 1le is than a 2ss 1le?

Don't forget the driver mod... practice practice practice.