[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

Weren't you just saying that the GT350 is to match or beat the 1LE? Now you're saying it's apples to oranges? Come on your trolling has been inconsistent lately. You should include maybe an asterisks to GT350* so we can understand what is Apples to Apples*.



*Track pack only models

1) you should figure out what trolling means.

2) the 15-16 TP/R or any 17+ GT350 will match or beat the 1LE

3) Are you too stupid to understand that the GT350 is a completely seperate model from the Mustang and not a package you choose on the Mustang?

You selected a Gt350 and then you added the track package or R package in 15-16 if you wanted to track it...or if you were an idiot you chose a base/tech and then cried foul when you couldn't track it.

[newmoon]

So much focus on a venue that the overall vast majority of us will either never venture to nor ever extract the performance capabilities of any of the cars being mentioned. Yes the lack of coolers is a mistake but what about the other 99.9% of the time the car is not on a track?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

1)You selected a Gt350 and then you added the track package or R package in 15-16 if you wanted to track it...or if you were an idiot you chose a base/tech and then cried foul when you couldn't track it.

You don't have to do all of that with the turbo 4 1LE, V6 1LE, SS 1LE, ZL1, or ZL1 1LE...

Funny how GM makes a 4cyl and V6 Camaro that is more track capable than the standard Shelby is.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You don't have to do all of that with the turbo 4 1LE, V6 1LE, SS 1LE, ZL1, or ZL1 1LE...

Yes you do the exact same thing...

You decide to buy a Camaro V6, SS or ZL1....then you add the 1LE track package exactly as you do on the Shelby, you either opt for TP or R.

and a base Shelby would probably manhandle a 4/6cy 1LE driving at 5/10's to not overheat. Not bad for a car not designed for track use.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You don't have to do all of that with the turbo 4 1LE, V6 1LE, SS 1LE, ZL1, or ZL1 1LE...

Funny how GM makes a 4cyl and V6 Camaro that is more track capable than the standard Shelby is.

You also don’t have to add coolers to the 1SS or 2SS. Chevy takes performance more seriously than Ford. The entire S550 proves that.

Chevy engineering is ahead of Ford and that is a direct result of Nurburgring testing and having track rats in top management

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Yes you do the exact same thing...

You decide to buy a Camaro V6, SS or ZL1....then you add the 1LE track package exactly as you do on the Shelby, you either opt for TP or R.

and a base Shelby would probably manhandle a 4/6cy 1LE driving at 5/10's to not overheat. Not bad for a car not designed for track use.

Well, yes and no. With the V6 you should order the 1LE if you want to track it. With SS and ZL1 you do not need to do that. I track my 2SS convertible with no issues. None. Completely stock.

Top pic is running quarters at Milan dragstrip. Ran over a dozen shots with minimal time between runs, so no cool down.

Second pic is our “Small Block Mafia” at M1 Concourse track. Great time, but I was the slowpoke of the group. The Grand Sport ruled the day. At one point I really got concerned because I was hearing what sounded like a tea kettle. Turned out to be the brakes on the Audi S5 behind me. Went away when he took a track exit.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well, yes and no. With the V6 you should order the 1LE if you want to track it. With SS and ZL1 you do not need to do that. I track my 2SS convertible with no issues. None. Completely stock.

every Shelby has come with coolers since 17'. The PP2 is a cluster**** to not have coolers. The GT and PP1 dont need to have coolers standard. My GT will never see a road course...why should I have paid a higher cost for them to have been included?

[hotlap]

Every Camaro with performance intent can withstand driving it like you stole it for a full tank of gas. With warranty.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Here is the problem: In 2016 the track pack Shelby was completely stripped down. The car had less options on it than a Focus. For people who wanted a pure track car only the R was the car for that.

People bought the 350 with the tech pack under the assumption that it could do some amateur tracking and it had a few options to make regular driving more enjoyable. Several fires later and Ford finally did what they should have done to start and made the track pack standard.

Now the PP2 is overheating. So it is no better than the PP1 or base model after 15 minutes. Ridiculous. Yet every single SS can run all day lap after lap and pass after pass until it runs out of fuel. Embarrassing for Ford. (Or it should be)

There was one reported fire, and it had nothing to do with Track Pack or Tech Pack. It had to do with an O-ring on an oil cooler. You are obviously clueless, and spreading misinformation on top of it.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

There was one reported fire, and it had nothing to do with Track Pack or Tech Pack. It had to do with an O-ring on an oil cooler. You are obviously clueless, and spreading misinformation on top of it.

A quick Google will lead you to one on fire in Georgia, and one on fire in Charlotte. Try again Bud.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

A quick Google will lead you to one on fire in Georgia, and one on fire in Charlotte. Try again Bud.

Two fires?? Nice come back, you sure showed me! LOL

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Two fires?? Nice come back, you sure showed me! LOL

That's from a quick Google search. Didn't spend more time than that because I dont care.

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You can say that and it's cool I guess. But I would not like it if the SS was faster than my ZL1 or a SRT8 or R/T could beat my Hellcat. That is just a slap in the face. But I'll say it again. The 6th Gen SS is soo close to the both of the Shelbys that the only way for the GT to beat it at anything is to actually beat the Shelby too.

This whole mess with coolers...well if they did add coolers then they would have effectively made another GT350. Which would beg the question, why did they put those expensive ass CF rims and that expensive ass FPC engine in the GT350 just to match it's performance without any of that in the same generation and same year? Ford HAD to snip the GT PP2 some how. And they had to keep costs down. And they probably didn't want to warranty another car that would be tracked like the Shelbys are.

I guess it all depends on why you purchase X vehicle over Y and what have you. I could have purchased a base Z06 for less than my R here in Canada, or a mildly optioned one for not much more. For that matter the Viper was also in my price range when shopping. But ultimately after spending time in my father's Vette, I came to appreciate that relative level of power/weight. Very fun on the street, still plenty of quick for what my purposes, and IMO I believe being able to push a slower car a little harder is more enjoyable than driving a much faster car slower due to a higher level of skill required. I just know that if I were to have Z06 power levels under my foot, I would have to be much more cautious of throttle application coming out of corners and even on straight sections really.

Of course both of those cars are significantly faster on track and at the strip than my R is as well, but I purposefully chose the slower car primarily because the engine interested me more. I knew I wanted a high revving engine, and it was something unique and never seen before. End of the day man I feel like we need to come to the realization that at this point in time, technology is advancing faster than we can keep up, or at least faster than my wallet can keep up LOL I would never be able to afford to continually buy the "newest, fastest thing". Hell, in a short time basic electric commuters might be quicker 0-60 than the majority of our V8 sports cars, but it won't bother me one one bit.

The whole coolers fiasco is a mess I agree. But don't forget that the PP2 might be close to the GT350 in performance, when the 350 has Pilot Super Sports. Sport Cup 2's make a pretty big difference in performance, hence the MY19 350 coming with SC2's to retain the several second per lap gap between the Shelby and PP2. When Ford was testing their own Performance vehicles, the R was over 8 seconds a lap faster than the MY18 PP1 GT. Putting sport cup 2's on the PP2 and a little better suspension components won't come near to closing that gap on the R anyways.

The CF wheels are expensive yes, especially when they first came out. But you have to know that Ford doesn't pay what we would pay at the parts counter? The price has come down a lot over the past several years as well, I believe a set can be had for around $10K. Compared to a set of the best forged wheels at ~$6K and it is still expensive, but not completely insane. What most people don't realize is that when they look at the weight of the CF wheels they think "oh sure they're only 18lbs, forged wheels are cheaper and I can get them at 20-21lbs a piece in that size". But what they don't realize is that a lot of the weight of the CF wheel is actually the aluminum backpad at the centre of the wheel. Where it counts, at the outer edge, the wheel is extremely light. It is also more rigid an retains its camber better during high G-loading as well compared to traditional wheels. Ultimately it was absolutely expensive, but it was an investment on their part. You can see they then used CF wheels on the Ford GT, and certainly the GT500 whenever it bothers to show up will have them as an option. You can certainly bet it will continue to be shown on their higher end performance models for the forseeable future, as well as other manufacturers once they decide to invest in the technology. The dividends in regards to performance and driving feel are worth it.

The FPC was also expensive, but it can't really be denied that it is one of the most universally loved engines in the past number of years. Personally I can't recall any other engine getting as much attention or praise since I've been into cars over the last decade or so other than the GT3's. I also like that they did something unique for the 350 nameplate, and decided to go outside the norm. I have wanted a GT3 since I got into cars, and when I saw the GT350 I knew it was as close to that driving experience as I could get for less than half the cost. Some engines are experience oil consumption issues and there have been a number of failures of course, but the situations seem to be pretty varied, pointing to not just one item being the cause of these failures. I imagine since it is a hand built engine and Ford's first of its kind there are some growing pains associated with not only the assembly but also defects from the various manufacturers whom the parts are supplied. My car burns virtually nothing, less than 1/4 of a quart over ~7000miles and many others have the same experience.

TLR - We purchase cars for different reasons, coolers are a must for track cars, CF and FPC's are kewlll, electric cars will soon dominate the 1/4mile scene

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Yes you do the exact same thing...

You decide to buy a Camaro V6, SS or ZL1....then you add the 1LE track package exactly as you do on the Shelby, you either opt for TP or R.

and a base Shelby would probably manhandle a 4/6cy 1LE driving at 5/10's to not overheat. Not bad for a car not designed for track use.

Wrong. The 1LE come prepared with everything needed. It is a track car that doesn't require adding on extra stuff. The GT350 needs this and/or that added on to be tracked. That's like ordering the 1LE and then having to opt in other features.

Originally Posted by hotlap

You also don’t have to add coolers to the 1SS or 2SS. Chevy takes performance more seriously than Ford. The entire S550 proves that.

Chevy engineering is ahead of Ford and that is a direct result of Nurburgring testing and having track rats in top management

Yup. Having track rats in management as opposed to having a bunch of guys sitting around after hours off the clock to come up with a package apparently is completely different, lol!!

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

every Shelby has come with coolers since 17'. The PP2 is a cluster**** to not have coolers. The GT and PP1 dont need to have coolers standard. My GT will never see a road course...why should I have paid a higher cost for them to have been included?

"Since 17"...

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

There was one reported fire, and it had nothing to do with Track Pack or Tech Pack. It had to do with an O-ring on an oil cooler. You are obviously clueless, and spreading misinformation on top of it.

It was obviously such a great risk that Ford had to recall EVERY Shelby to resolve the potential issue. They even gave that one dude his money back or some shit even tho his Shelby was highly modded.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

but I purposefully chose the slower car primarily because the engine interested me more.

I can't say the same thing. If I can afford the faster car, then I'm getting the faster car.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

The FPC was also expensive, but it can't really be denied that it is one of the most universally loved engines in the past number of years. Personally I can't recall any other engine getting as much attention or praise since I've been into cars over the last decade or so other than the GT3's.

This I have to disagree with. Most people have no idea what a FPC engine is. Even some of the Mustang guys aren't sure what it is. And I'm not sure where you gt info that it was the most universally loved engine...the Chevy 350s, the LS engine family, and the Hemis occupy that domain. The LS engines are the most widely used engines in just about everything from project cars to small aircraft to boat engines etc. You say "LS engine", "350", "5.7", or "Hemi" and everyone will know what you're talking about or will have heard of it. Heck I'll even give the "5.0" and "302" monikers recognition as being very well known. But you say "Voodoo" or "5.2 FPC" and very few people will know what you're talking about. Among the Ford crowd they are popular. But nobody else is impressed with them.