[NuclearOptions]

Been looking through this forum and would like to share my project and ask for ideas.

I'm building a 1350lb to 1650lb open class pulling tractor with a 2015 ATS LTG motor. I've got a custom Quicktime SFI 6.1 bellhousing bolted up along with a Quartermaster 5.5" Billet flywheel machined to the LTG specs. Next came a rebuilt Tilton 5.5" triple disc clutch. For transmission i'm using a Doug Nash 2 speed manual with rear quickchange gears and a narrowed Ford 9" that will house a rebuild Ford posi-trac and 7.00:1 ring and pinion.

The question part comes in to getting this combo running as a standalone out of a car. I bought the new HPT MPVI2 for tuning out all the car emissions and things i won't be using but i have never used one before. I am planning on having Mitch at Swap Time remove all unnecessary wires and make it ready for a standalone app. Unless someone on here has electrical diagrams i can get to do my own harness. The caddy uses a E39A ECU and used a narow band O2 sensor. Can this ECU be usedwith a wide band or should i buy a Camaro E80 ECU being they use a wide band from the factory? My plan is to run a Bosch 044 fuel pump with the stock caddy fuel pump computer. I have used the same fuel pump on my methanol fueled GSXR750 motor for 3 seasons without an issue so i feel it should be fine with E85. Anybody see an issue with a setup like that?

2nd issue i'm running into is i need to keep weight down on the build so i'm unsure what to do for keeping IAT's in check. The engine will be run a similar time as a 1/4 mile drag race and just as hard. Will running E85 and no intercooler be an option? An air to air really seems like a waste unless using an electric fan being ground speed during a pull will be 25mph max. Air to water systems add quite a bit of weight that i can't afford. My other thought is using a air to water core in an small ice water tank and changing out ice each run.

This tractor will be pulling in a wide range of weight classes on both dirt and asphalt. So i'm wondering if it's possible to have the computer tuned to think it's in one then have micro switches to toggle on to fake the ECU into thinking it shifted to a different gear so i can switch power levels on the fly?

Kinda long post but this group seems like it has the minds to think outside the box with this motor. Thanks

Added some progress pics and last pic is the motorcycle engined i built and sold to fund this new one.

[raflyer]

Cool project! I would run e85 and methanol/water injection via a multiport setup and it would be fine without an IC for your pulls.

Tuning wise, the power levels button, you could set up an input like the mode switch on the caddy, Sport, Snow, Touring That affects the driver demand table which controls the amount of power going to the flywheel. You must always remember that these are TQ based systems so there is some differences in tuning these systems. Your biggest struggle will be keeping the throttle to actually stay open vs where your foot is.
The other thing is that believe it or not, even though its a 4cyl, its a TQ motor and not a high revving motor. You want max TQ so you need to keep RPM's around 3500 to 4500. Timing will be critical for your MBT power on this setup.

No need for huge psi boost, keep at around 21-22 and as much timing it can take w/o kr The e85 plus water inj will help there. Also keep an eye on high pressure fuel pump pressure. Want it to stay above 2600psi. Keep inj duty cycle below 35% with meth injection that shouldnt be a problem

Keep us updated on this project.

Rob

[sadpanda]

Wow lots to digest...

I'm assuming you pulled from an auto caddie. There is going to be a lot of kludging to make it happy with a manual trans. The LTG engines do utilize a 'target tq' strategy so you could in theory do some toggle switch power level stuff but I really think it's going to be way more trouble then it's worth. Best to flash/start with a 6MT tune. Then bring a laptop and flash different tunes based on conditions.

WBO2 didn't come around until `16 but flex fuel/WBO2 upgrades are available for 13-15 so you should be fine.

You are definitely going to want an intercooler. I would go ice box like you mentioned... It's going to be the most consistent. Colder is always better for power.

Out of curiosity, why not go with Atlas I6 from trailblazer? They make the same HP/TQ without turbo.

I'm curios to see how long the bottom end lives in this application. You may want to get with jackfab on this project... Aside from his boost valve (which you will need) he also had some forged/large bore pieces in the works that may have been cheaper then zzp

[NuclearOptions]

Raflyer the closing throttle is a big fear of mine right now. I was hoping the Tq tables can be tuned per gear so that if i run into a situation were there is no traction during my run i could toggle a switch to make the ECU into thinking it is in a different gear and pull back power to get wheels to hook up and then let go of switch to go back to full power without moving the throttle from 100%. Would the driving mode switching do the same thing but an easier tuning method? With a 7000 rpm redline and massive tq low in the revs i was hoping to be able to start a run with lower wheel speed and then use the large rpm range to bring the tires up to 50mph easily. My last tractor worked very well spinning it past peak power for tire speed. That way when the weighted skid drops the bars that kill track speed and eventually making you spin out the motor drops back to peak power and makes tires slow down and grab more traction. Do you feel i need to re-figure gear ratios to get that tire speed lower in the rpm range? Also what does MBT power stand for as i have not seen that term before?

Sadpanda will my ecu be flashable to run a flex fuel sensor and a wideband along with a manual trans starting tune? Or should i buy a 2016 Camaro ecu from manual trans car to start with? I understand this motor has some issues with pistons cracking the skirts and future upgrades will def. be Jason's Boost-o-Lator along with forged rods and pistons. Main competition in this class should not be much over 300hp, Mainly old school built 2.3 Ford engines and ZX1400 and Hayabusa engines with a couple going turbo this year. So my hope is the keep from going overboard on the initial tunes and keep things safer.

[Exportedafrican]

Mount the air to air inter cooler sideways (like a platter) and build an enclosure that lets you leave ice on it. That will give you max thermal transfer given you won’t have airflow. That’s going to be the lightest weight option while making max power.


Looks like things are coming together well!

[cooper1965]

Very cool! Might consider GM's 19328839 E92 controller package with fuel pump module and fuel pressure sensor for direct injection used to run the crate LTG. Running flex fuel, you should easily exceed your power goals 300ish on a stock LTG set up. I think heat will be an issue. Keep us posted!

[Raptor Jesus]

Is there any reason you're still wanting to use a factory ECU?

[sadpanda]

I don't think I've ever been near 7k rpm in my LTG even no lift shifting... They are huffed by 5500 or so.

If the crate ECU is tuneable then that would probably be a good route that way you are starting with a cleaner slate. I've never personally done a reflash like I'm suggesting, in fact there is some debate on the transmission board as to whether or not it's possible... Everything I've read seems to indicate yes, it's possible. Sooner you get linked up with a competent tuner, the better as going down the wrong path gets expensive quickly.

AFAIK driving modes only change shifting parameters (raises RPM up shift/gear hold/down shift) throttle pedal sensitivity and possibly steering power assist

Off the top of my head, auto trans tune monitors input shaft speed, output shaft speed, gear, temperature, tq converter status just to name a few. Your gear spoofing may work if you can successfully disable all of the other dependancies. Your gear spoof is also very analog...

Does your sanctioning body allow this :
https://www.onedirt.com/features/ask...right-for-you/

Much faster and more granular then you grabbing a button and would save you from messing with the auto trans tune. If it's not allowed:

I'm sure it's on the interwebs somewhere but the stabilatrak>ECM control loop would be interesting to take a look at. Depending on how clever you are you may be able to pull off this same functionality with the stock ECM stability strategy (spark cut) with some wheel speed sensors

[sadpanda]

Oh, wiring diagrams are available on alldata...

[NuclearOptions]

I've looked at the GM standalone setup and at $2200 i need to find a cheaper route. I bought a totaled ATS and disassembled the entire engine system so i have every part the kit would come with. Mitch quoted me under $500 to convert my harness to standalone with just a few wires to hook up, so that should get me running for much less. I have contacted a few of the LTG tuners like ZZP that i found on forums and none wanted to get into a standalone setup so if anyone here is willing to remote tune or be in Minnesota i would be more than interested in chatting about this with them.

Sadpanda my plan is to build or buy a pinion yoke speed sensor since this ecu needs to have a speed signal. And once i can get it on the track and shake a few things out and save up more cash to build in some tone rings and sensors for each axle. These tractors use independent rear brakes since we setup the chassis to take most of the weight off the front end during a hook we need a way to steer and correct track wander.

Another thing i'm trying to figure out is how to have view-able gauges since the new HP Tuners doesn't have a way to simultaneously log data and display gauges like the torque app yet.

[sadpanda]

EFI engine swaps I've done I run redundant sensors/mechanical gauges. There are some aftermarket CAN-BUS gauges as well.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by NuclearOptions

I've looked at the GM standalone setup and at $2200 i need to find a cheaper route. I bought a totaled ATS and disassembled the entire engine system so i have every part the kit would come with. Mitch quoted me under $500 to convert my harness to standalone with just a few wires to hook up, so that should get me running for much less. I have contacted a few of the LTG tuners like ZZP that i found on forums and none wanted to get into a standalone setup so if anyone here is willing to remote tune or be in Minnesota i would be more than interested in chatting about this with them.

Sadpanda my plan is to build or buy a pinion yoke speed sensor since this ecu needs to have a speed signal. And once i can get it on the track and shake a few things out and save up more cash to build in some tone rings and sensors for each axle. These tractors use independent rear brakes since we setup the chassis to take most of the weight off the front end during a hook we need a way to steer and correct track wander.

Another thing i'm trying to figure out is how to have view-able gauges since the new HP Tuners doesn't have a way to simultaneously log data and display gauges like the torque app yet.

I don't think you're using the term standalone correctly. A standalone will not use any part of the GM control unit. Piggybacking a factory setup sounds like what you're trying. A true standalone sounds like what you need though since you have zero use for anything else.

[NuclearOptions]

Raptor what standalone system do you recommend that will get this running including the VVT cams? If a true standalone is what is needed what does one run as i don't have an unlimited budget? My feeling was anything other than tuning a factory ECU to run out of a car would be even harder to get running as at least people have ideas on how to get around most of the torque management of the factory system.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by NuclearOptions

Raptor what standalone system do you recommend that will get this running including the VVT cams? If a true standalone is what is needed what does one run as i don't have an unlimited budget? My feeling was anything other than tuning a factory ECU to run out of a car would be even harder to get running as at least people have ideas on how to get around most of the torque management of the factory system.

There are tons of options, I wouldn't even know where to begin, just depends on your budget. In your application I'm sure you'd run the variable timing fixed anyway so control is almost a non issue. Just seems it would be a lot easier to have a basic ECU control the functions you need over trying to fool a factory one into thinking it's in a car while it looks for every sensor and parameter you have to trick and fool.