[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

The issue with your asterisk is that Al O. specifically said that ever since the 6th gen, the Camaro team has full access to any and all powertrain combinations in GM's arsenal.

So it made sense, and we all agree the Corvette team ensured the Camaro team would never get their level of power prior to the 6th gen...

I'm not saying an LT5 6th gen is going to happen, I'm only hopeful as this new GT500 will most certainly be quicker in a straight line.

Until the Camaro gets access to everything the Corvette does, what Al O said is irrelevant. Even more so now that he’s not even part of Team Camaro. The Camaro is a parts bin special. That’s all GM will let it be. The sad thing is they don’t even give it the best of what’s available.

[JaxChris]

The ZL1 > Z06 when it came to cooling and track longevity, so the 6th gen Camaro wasn't a parts bin special entirely. I think the correct statement on Camaro is that it is a parts bin car with zero restrictions on what it can grab.

The 10L90, like the 8L90, is a faster shifting unit than the vaunted Porsche PDK, which is a DCT. Where the DCT's outshine over the TC automatics is that they have less transfer losses and put a greater percentage of power to the differential. That is why DCT's will come out on top for performance vehicles.

The new GT500 is using a DCT as a statement that Ford is finally ready to get serious about racing with a car that is less than 400k. Another reason is that a DCT allows that extra power transfer to make up for how fat it is. It will have a curb weight in Challenger territory and Ford needs other PR items to distract from that. They will be offering the Carbon package to lighten some pieces and remove stuff for the serious buyer, but that will only get them down to ZL1 weight at best.

The ZL1 is still a complete car at either trim. The problem is that GM looks at the numbers and 1LE sales make up most of the manual transmission sales and they are less than 10% of SS & ZL1 sales. Everyone wants their highest package making more sales because of margins. Well just sticking the stock automatic into the most powerful version for anyone with the cash to buy isn't going to satisfy the weekend racers. So the DCT is the respectable middle ground.

If they revive the 7th gen Camaro program (it's idling), expect a DCT as the only option, possible AWD as an option, and the highest engines only offered on top of 1LE cars. We could see the LT5 for blower cars and the LT2/LT3 (C8 NA motor, haven't seen any confirmed designation for it yet) as the NA option. I honestly expect the LT376/535 to be the blueprint of the entry C8 motor.

Without the TC, GM won't be able to provide AFM/DFM masking, so expect an L99 feel that everyone will immediately want to tune out.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

The ZL1 > Z06 when it came to cooling and track longevity, so the 6th gen Camaro wasn't a parts bin special entirely. .

Wasn't that partly due to lessons learned with the Z06 and packaging of the LT4 in general?

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

The ZL1 > Z06 when it came to cooling and track longevity, so the 6th gen Camaro wasn't a parts bin special entirely. I think the correct statement on Camaro is that it is a parts bin car with zero restrictions on what it can grab.

The 10L90, like the 8L90, is a faster shifting unit than the vaunted Porsche PDK, which is a DCT. Where the DCT's outshine over the TC automatics is that they have less transfer losses and put a greater percentage of power to the differential. That is why DCT's will come out on top for performance vehicles.

The new GT500 is using a DCT as a statement that Ford is finally ready to get serious about racing with a car that is less than 400k. Another reason is that a DCT allows that extra power transfer to make up for how fat it is. It will have a curb weight in Challenger territory and Ford needs other PR items to distract from that. They will be offering the Carbon package to lighten some pieces and remove stuff for the serious buyer, but that will only get them down to ZL1 weight at best.

The ZL1 is still a complete car at either trim. The problem is that GM looks at the numbers and 1LE sales make up most of the manual transmission sales and they are less than 10% of SS & ZL1 sales. Everyone wants their highest package making more sales because of margins. Well just sticking the stock automatic into the most powerful version for anyone with the cash to buy isn't going to satisfy the weekend racers. So the DCT is the respectable middle ground.

If they revive the 7th gen Camaro program (it's idling), expect a DCT as the only option, possible AWD as an option, and the highest engines only offered on top of 1LE cars. We could see the LT5 for blower cars and the LT2/LT3 (C8 NA motor, haven't seen any confirmed designation for it yet) as the NA option. I honestly expect the LT376/535 to be the blueprint of the entry C8 motor.

Without the TC, GM won't be able to provide AFM/DFM masking, so expect an L99 feel that everyone will immediately want to tune out.

First I've seen this and I don't doubt your sources. This makes a lot of sense with sales numbers.

[Stealth7]

It would be great for Camaro to always > Mustang performance. Hopefully the new GT500 pushes the new Camaro.

Camaro cannot have access to everything all other GM cars have based on price point. ZR1 reasonable optioned is $135-145k before Tax, etc. Camaro is nowhere close to that.

My wish list for the next Camaro (I have a '18 A10 ZL1) includes: (a) better traction (whether AWD or Maclaren magic); (b) LT5 or otherwise, but more power (of course!); (c) better MOD upside in the OEM package (i.e., no maxed-out blower or fuel system); (d) more and faster downshifts (to lower gears when you stomp on it); and (e) if possible, a larger rear trunk mouth.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Stealth7

It would be great for Camaro to always > Mustang performance. Hopefully the new GT500 pushes the new Camaro.

Camaro cannot have access to everything all other GM cars have based on price point. ZR1 reasonable optioned is $135-145k before Tax, etc. Camaro is nowhere close to that.

My wish list for the next Camaro (I have a '18 A10 ZL1) includes: (a) better traction (whether AWD or Maclaren magic); (b) LT5 or otherwise, but more power (of course!); (c) better MOD upside in the OEM package (i.e., no maxed-out blower or fuel system); (d) more and faster downshifts (to lower gears when you stomp on it); and (e) if possible, a larger rear trunk mouth.

^ With that list comes higher price points so. Would Chevy find a buyer for the Zl1 in the $70k range? Who knows. B4 we know it, the Camaro is going to be $100k. haha.

[Alain]

I also have a suspicion that the Camaro’s days are numbered.

GT500 seems to not have had the huge impact everyone was expecting, I think it’s mainly because we don’t know any of the specs yet. I don’t see that car being less than 75K...... probably closer to 80K which will price a tremendous amount of buyers out of purchasing. But I’m staying tuned like everyone else.

I’m interested in one but no way I’d spend that much money on it. I don’t care how much carbon fiber or how fast it is.

That’s were Dodge is winning, they realize that the average car guy/car buyer in this country loves to brag about horsepower and torque. So they stuffed that giant supercharged Hemi in an old-ass chasis and kept the price down. The hellcats have been a tremendous success because of that.

Very few people outside of us here on these forums care about weight reduction or road course / drag times. But EVERYONE cares about price, torque and affordability. So for the most part that’s what they have to cater to.

Weight reduction = more expensive, we all know that. Most of the muscle car crowd has a spending limit, once these cars go over that limit people will probably look elsewhere

[Stealth7]

Zl1 is already $70k! My '18 had a sticker of $69xxx before Tax, Title, etc. That said, I would pay for a LT5 Camaro IF it could hook up and deliver < 10.8 sec. 1/4 mi. at >132mph+ (and I do not drag race, these are just performance metrics).

[tbrennyZL1]

Originally Posted by Stealth7

Zl1 is already $70k! My '18 had a sticker of $69xxx before Tax, Title, etc. That said, I would pay for a LT5 Camaro IF it could hook up and deliver < 10.8 sec. 1/4 mi. at >132mph+ (and I do not drag race, these are just performance metrics).

I think that might require AWD. That’s what a ZR1 runs on mag testing. If they did AWD it’d probably throw down mid 10’s with that kind of power. I think you’d get about 80%+ of the crowd complaining about weight, history, blah, etc up until they saw the acceleration specs!!

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I would say they don't intentionally limit it, but in reality it is limited by what Corvette gets

On the topic at hand, no I don't expect the LT5 to come to the Camaro. Here is my reasoning.

1. I believe the LT5 will be a Corvette exclusive to send the C7 out in style as the baddest front engine vette ever produced.

2. Past history says they won't. They had the LS9 available in the 5th gen, and when you had the 662HP GT500, they stood pat with the 580HP LSA.

3. Going back as far as I can recall in the modern era, the Camaro has never had the same top engine as the Corvette at the same time.

4th gen never got the LS6,
5th gen never got the LS9 & only got the LS7 AFTER Corvette was done using it.
6th Gen so far nothing indicates getting the LT-5

So no, I do not see the Camaro getting the LT5

4th gen ZL1 had a LS6. They however were a very limited production car.

[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by Stealth7

Zl1 is already $70k! My '18 had a sticker of $69xxx before Tax, Title, etc. That said, I would pay for a LT5 Camaro IF it could hook up and deliver < 10.8 sec. 1/4 mi. at >132mph+ (and I do not drag race, these are just performance metrics).

An LT5 Z would run those numbers easy, especially if you put a drag tire on it. I'll be looking to run that time (hopefully better) with everything being stock on my LT4 except rear wheels and tires. Not sure if I'll pick up enough mph to run that speed, but I might. I've ran 130 on the stock wheels and tires. Making my final decision on wheel and tire combination at the moment.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

4th gen ZL1 had a LS6. They however were a very limited production car.

Not a production car - that was a GMMG car, assembled by Matt Murphy's team. Same as the Berger, Dick Harrell, Blackbird, Tom Henry, Hot Rod Editions...you get the point.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

4th gen ZL1 had a LS6. They however were a very limited production car.

See below

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Not a production car - that was a GMMG car, assembled by Matt Murphy's team. Same as the Berger, Dick Harrell, Blackbird, Tom Henry, Hot Rod Editions...you get the point.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Not a production car - that was a GMMG car, assembled by Matt Murphy's team. Same as the Berger, Dick Harrell, Blackbird, Tom Henry, Hot Rod Editions...you get the point.

Yeah you are correct...my mistake