'18 ZL1 A10 - full throttle surging on track - Page 2

Rodan · 10-19-2019, 11:03 AM

Update:

I spoke to the service manager at the local dealer, who has been pretty good to work with so far. I took the car in yesterday for them to see if a data recording tool they had would work on the Gen6 Camaro... they were going to let me borrow it for the next track day. Long story short, it didn't work on the ZL1.

However, after talking directly with the tech and showing him my video, he thinks it may be air in the intercooler circuit. Note that this tech was not there when I brought the car in the first time. I had originally dicounted air in the intercooler as a problem because of the surging... that didn't seem consistent with the way the ECU would pull timing in a high IAT event, but the tech thinks it's likely the problem.

For those that don't know, if the pump in the intercooler circuit cavitates, it SHUTS DOWN completely for 3 minutes before restarting. No codes, no warning lights, just high IATs and pulled timing.

I'm going to set up an appointment next week to have them bleed the intercooler circuit... hopefully that's the problem.

Next step after that is datalogging, but I'm trying to avoid spending $$$ on a datalogging tool if I can help it.

Rodan · 10-19-2019, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

To the OP, if the challenge I’m having with my car is different than yours, I’ll stop posting on this thread, up until now it is unclear to me if we are experiencing the same problem, your thoughts?

I don't have any problem with you posting here, but I don't think we're chasing the same problem.

Rodan · 10-28-2019, 07:13 PM

Update: back to the dealer today for an intercooler bleed... good news and bad news.

The good news is there was a lot of air in the system, so I'm hopeful the problem has been fixed.

The bad news is dealer service people are idiots, and never listen to the customer...

When I made the appointment, I specifically asked if they had the service tool to bleed the ZL1 system. I even specifically pointed out it was unique, and different from the ZO6 tool. The service manager even went in the back and asked (what he asked, I don't know...). He told me they were good to go.

Of course, I bring the car in and they don't have the tool...

Now, I didn't know any of this until I picked up the car... Turns out they installed a ZO6 bleed fitting, because they had the tool to bleed it. Of course, it doesn't fit properly, and puts a bend in the hose that shouldn't be there. So now I have to go back again after they get the tool, so they can re-install the original fitting...

ZL1 bleed fitting:

ZO6 fitting they put on my car:

Why GM would use two completely different bleed fittings on the LT4 in ZL1 vs. the ZO6 is completely beyond me. What a f*cking PITA.

Stephen12ZL1 · 10-28-2019, 08:50 PM

my car surged a bit after I put 100 octane in it at VIR...run full 91 or 93 and see if the surging persists. Good luck with the fix

GunMetalGrey · 10-28-2019, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodan

Update: back to the dealer today for an intercooler bleed... good news and bad news.

The good news is there was a lot of air in the system, so I'm hopeful the problem has been fixed.

The bad news is dealer service people are idiots, and never listen to the customer...

When I made the appointment, I specifically asked if they had the service tool to bleed the ZL1 system. I even specifically pointed out it was unique, and different from the ZO6 tool. The service manager even went in the back and asked (what he asked, I don't know...). He told me they were good to go.

Of course, I bring the car in and they don't have the tool...

Now, I didn't know any of this until I picked up the car... Turns out they installed a ZO6 bleed fitting, because they had the tool to bleed it. Of course, it doesn't fit properly, and puts a bend in the hose that shouldn't be there. So now I have to go back again after they get the tool, so they can re-install the original fitting...

Why GM would use two completely different bleed fittings on the LT4 in ZL1 vs. the ZO6 is completely beyond me. What a f*cking PITA.

Wow, dealerships...
Well at least I hope this solves your track problem!

Norm Peterson · 10-29-2019, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodan

Why GM would use two completely different bleed fittings on the LT4 in ZL1 vs. the ZO6 is completely beyond me. What a f*cking PITA.

Only reason that makes much sense would be if the hose routing was different.

Norm

Rodan · 10-29-2019, 08:08 AM

The routing I can understand, but it's the connection to the service tool for bleeding it that's different as well.

Rodan · 11-27-2019, 07:29 AM

OK, so I guess I forgot to update this... it's FIXED.

I installed the ADM intercooler reservoir after the dealer SNAFU described above. They weren't going to get the tool from GM in time to get the job done correctly, and I had a track weekend coming up, so I was up against it.

I made a thread on the ADM reservoir install here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=564965

We ran the car for two days on the track after installing the reservoir, and had zero issues, so I'm satisfied that the problem was indeed air in the intercooler circuit. The LT4 should have been designed with a high-point reservoir (like the ADM, or equivalent) from the factory. It would have made fill/bleeding a non-issue, makes it owner serviceable, and would have eliminated all of the nonsense I went through with the dealer. I highly recommend making this modification to anyone that is going to track their ZL1.

*radz28* · 11-27-2019, 08:54 AM

Good read and great info! Thank you very much.

10-28-2019, 08:50 PM	#18
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,808	my car surged a bit after I put 100 octane in it at VIR...run full 91 or 93 and see if the surging persists. Good luck with the fix __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

11-27-2019, 08:54 AM	#23
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crazy Coast Posts: 15,181 View My Garage	Good read and great info! Thank you very much. __________________ '20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs

10-19-2019, 11:03 AM	#15
Rodan Drives: 2018 ZL1 coupe Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 589	Update: I spoke to the service manager at the local dealer, who has been pretty good to work with so far. I took the car in yesterday for them to see if a data recording tool they had would work on the Gen6 Camaro... they were going to let me borrow it for the next track day. Long story short, it didn't work on the ZL1. However, after talking directly with the tech and showing him my video, he thinks it may be air in the intercooler circuit. Note that this tech was not there when I brought the car in the first time. I had originally dicounted air in the intercooler as a problem because of the surging... that didn't seem consistent with the way the ECU would pull timing in a high IAT event, but the tech thinks it's likely the problem. For those that don't know, if the pump in the intercooler circuit cavitates, it SHUTS DOWN completely for 3 minutes before restarting. No codes, no warning lights, just high IATs and pulled timing. I'm going to set up an appointment next week to have them bleed the intercooler circuit... hopefully that's the problem. Next step after that is datalogging, but I'm trying to avoid spending $$$ on a datalogging tool if I can help it.

10-28-2019, 07:13 PM	#17
Rodan Drives: 2018 ZL1 coupe Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 589	Update: back to the dealer today for an intercooler bleed... good news and bad news. The good news is there was a lot of air in the system, so I'm hopeful the problem has been fixed. The bad news is dealer service people are idiots, and never listen to the customer... When I made the appointment, I specifically asked if they had the service tool to bleed the ZL1 system. I even specifically pointed out it was unique, and different from the ZO6 tool. The service manager even went in the back and asked (what he asked, I don't know...). He told me they were good to go. Of course, I bring the car in and they don't have the tool... Now, I didn't know any of this until I picked up the car... Turns out they installed a ZO6 bleed fitting, because they had the tool to bleed it. Of course, it doesn't fit properly, and puts a bend in the hose that shouldn't be there. So now I have to go back again after they get the tool, so they can re-install the original fitting... ZL1 bleed fitting: ZO6 fitting they put on my car: Why GM would use two completely different bleed fittings on the LT4 in ZL1 vs. the ZO6 is completely beyond me. What a f*cking PITA.

10-29-2019, 08:08 AM	#21
Rodan Drives: 2018 ZL1 coupe Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 589	The routing I can understand, but it's the connection to the service tool for bleeding it that's different as well.

11-27-2019, 07:29 AM	#22
Rodan Drives: 2018 ZL1 coupe Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 589	OK, so I guess I forgot to update this... it's FIXED. I installed the ADM intercooler reservoir after the dealer SNAFU described above. They weren't going to get the tool from GM in time to get the job done correctly, and I had a track weekend coming up, so I was up against it. I made a thread on the ADM reservoir install here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=564965 We ran the car for two days on the track after installing the reservoir, and had zero issues, so I'm satisfied that the problem was indeed air in the intercooler circuit. The LT4 should have been designed with a high-point reservoir (like the ADM, or equivalent) from the factory. It would have made fill/bleeding a non-issue, makes it owner serviceable, and would have eliminated all of the nonsense I went through with the dealer. I highly recommend making this modification to anyone that is going to track their ZL1.

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