[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think everyone knows I'm more of a fanboy these days than an enthusiast. For a long time I was a Mustang guy. Probably for about a good 5 or 6 years. The 5th Gen Camaros brought me back to reality. The Coyote S197s were nice. But they just always seemed to lack something. But even back then I was still an enthusiast. I think it all changed for me after I got my 15 GT and all the disappointments I experienced with that car. To me the S550 was just too far behind especially for the times...2015. GM took the 6th Gen Camaro to new heights that the 5th Gen Camaro was not on. The 16 SS was keeping up with the previous ZL1 and Z28. Which says a lot to how far they advanced things. The S550 tho, it was just a S197 with a few new things. It certainly didn't make any leaps or bounds or even a step forward. By the time they did the 18 refresh I was already done with them. If the 18s had come out in 2015 then I probably would think differently. But the 18s was a move out of necessity. GM pushed the 16s farther out of competitiveness and trying to keep improving whereas Ford just slightly nudged the GT because they knew it would sell regardless. Ford then realized that they were really getting destroyed and HAD to up the performance. Otherwise they would have done nothing. And that is what I dislike about them.

Anyway, sound-wise yea the Mustang sounds better. Not by a landslide. I wouldn't say the Camaro sounds bad in comparison. The SS still sounds really good. The GT just sounds a little better. Throw an aftermarket exhaust on both and the SS takes the crown. You'll get virtually no drone from a Camaro with an aftermarket exhaust. My 15 GT had drone soo bad it would give me a headache. You could not hear someone on the phone. And a long drive, forget it. You have to pick the right exhaust and then you still might have drone...and it'll cost significantly more than most exhausts. You don't have that problem with the Camaro.

Looks...I'd say it is a tie. It comes down to the ZL1 vs Shelbys and I think the ZL1 front is killer. Tho not by much. The ZL1 does not make the Shelby look bad. It just looks better.

Everything else...performance, quality, durability, etc...GM has got the game in a vice grip. I honestly do not think the American market is much competition for what GM is putting out right now. And I think it will take a long time for anyone to catch up. Especially price per dollar. Dodge might have the market in straight line performance. But that is all they got. And GM is creeping up on them with cars that can not only hang in a straight line but can also corner. I think GM has become the industry standard.

Certainly one of your most fair posts on Mustang vs. Camaro that I've seen. Thanks for the background. Competition always breeds better cars. I mean, look at what happened to the 2010 then 2011 Mustang GTs after the 5th gen Camaros came out. Ford was sitting on their butt with the GT output. Then BAM, way more hp with a much better engine after the 2010 SS spanked the GT in power. Forget incremental hp improvements. GM definitely set out to raise the bar with that LS3.

As you already know, I wasn't completely convinced on the Mustang GT until the '18s came out. Yeah, as I described earlier the GT previously had its merits and was a good looking car, but they finally put together the complete package in the '18 A10 PP1 (for me). Fast, sounds great (louder and better sounding than the 15-17 GTs), more hp and a significant more low and mid range torque than Gen 2 Coyotes, looks, safety tech., features, etc.

Anyway, looks and many things are subjective. Heck, even engines with similar power output are subjective. I love the dual injection on the Gen 3, and the fact it has 12.0:1 compression ratio, and revs to 7,500 rpm redline (the sound above 7k IMO is something else, simply because that's not anything I've ever had the ability to do in a V8 before this).

I look back on the performance of old Z28s and GTs (like my stock '87 Z28) and sometimes still can't believe how far both pony cars have come. I have been feeling nostalgic lately for my old 3rd gen Camaro...been looking at them on autotrader. They have gone up in value, for sure, esp., clean IROCs. and 91-92 Z28s Maybe someday I'll buy one that doesn't run and rebuild it from the chassis through the drivetrain with modern engines/trans/ and suspension components. Who knows. Good stuff.

[NW-99SS]

I love a clean IROC, especially the 89-90. LS swap it with a T-56 and it would be perfect!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Certainly one of your most fair posts on Mustang vs. Camaro that I've seen. Thanks for the background. Competition always breeds better cars. I mean, look at what happened to the 2010 then 2011 Mustang GTs after the 5th gen Camaros came out. Ford was sitting on their butt with the GT output. Then BAM, way more hp with a much better engine after the 2010 SS spanked the GT in power. Forget incremental hp improvements. GM definitely set out to raise the bar with that LS3.

As you already know, I wasn't completely convinced on the Mustang GT until the '18s came out. Yeah, as I described earlier the GT previously had its merits and was a good looking car, but they finally put together the complete package in the '18 A10 PP1 (for me). Fast, sounds great (louder and better sounding than the 15-17 GTs), more hp and a significant more low and mid range torque than Gen 2 Coyotes, looks, safety tech., features, etc.

Anyway, looks and many things are subjective. Heck, even engines with similar power output are subjective. I love the dual injection on the Gen 3, and the fact it has 12.0:1 compression ratio, and revs to 7,500 rpm redline (the sound above 7k IMO is something else, simply because that's not anything I've ever had the ability to do in a V8 before this).

I look back on the performance of old Z28s and GTs (like my stock '87 Z28) and sometimes still can't believe how far both pony cars have come. I have been feeling nostalgic lately for my old 3rd gen Camaro...been looking at them on autotrader. They have gone up in value, for sure, esp., clean IROCs. and 91-92 Z28s Maybe someday I'll buy one that doesn't run and rebuild it from the chassis through the drivetrain with modern engines/trans/ and suspension components. Who knows. Good stuff.

I would have different thoughts on the Camaro vs Mustang debate if the 18 updates were applied to the 15s. The competition would have been on fair ground and I doubt anyone would be able to declare a clean victory. And I probably would have favored the Mustang over the Camaro based on the looks. I didn't care enough about the SS to buy one. But the 15 GTs did look good enough that I bought one. However the ZL1 changed everything. Anyway. I do think competition is good for Ford and that they are competing with GM. But I do not think GM is competing with Ford and hasn't been for a while now. I think GM set their sights on other competition in the performance spectrum. To me it seems like Ford is just keeping up with GM while GM is trying to take the performance crown from everyone and everything. We'll see in the next few years.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I love a clean IROC, especially the 89-90. LS swap it with a T-56 and it would be perfect!

My favorite was the 87s!!

[IneedAZ]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I would have different thoughts on the Camaro vs Mustang debate if the 18 updates were applied to the 15s. The competition would have been on fair ground and I doubt anyone would be able to declare a clean victory. And I probably would have favored the Mustang over the Camaro based on the looks. I didn't care enough about the SS to buy one. But the 15 GTs did look good enough that I bought one. However the ZL1 changed everything. Anyway. I do think competition is good for Ford and that they are competing with GM. But I do not think GM is competing with Ford and hasn't been for a while now. I think GM set their sights on other competition in the performance spectrum. To me it seems like Ford is just keeping up with GM while GM is trying to take the performance crown from everyone and everything. We'll see in the next few years.

My favorite was the 87s!!

I had a 87 IROC with T tops. Put way too much money into that car. Pulled out the TPI 305 and put in a 355 carb motor with Dart heads and 3.73 gears in the rear. Went thru too many transmissions. Think i went thru 7 of them.

[cbr1100xx]

I had a '15 and '19 GT. The '19 GT sounds better stock than a Camaro w/NPP IMO. With axleback....the SS sounds better. The SS is a much sportier car though and I prefer it over the Mustang.

[MATEOLT1SS]

It's all subjective, I like them both. I own a 6th gen but I work for Ford so let me be careful on what I say lol

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MATEOLT1SS

It's all subjective, I like them both. I own a 6th gen but I work for Ford so let me be careful on what I say lol

In my 38 years at GM I have owned 2 Corvettes, 1 Camaro (current car) and....








4 Mustangs

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

I consider myself a pony car and muscle car guy, I've owned cars from all the Big 3, some of which are in my signature. The following is obviously just my opinion, especially looks.

1st gen: I'd say 1st gen F-bodies and Mustangs are a tie. Both had fantastic looks and performance for the day. Both are iconic. I used to own a 69 Mustang fastback.

2nd gen: F-body. I'm not a big fan of the 2nd gen F-bodies, but the Mustangs were horrific.

3rd gen: F-body BY FAR. The Fox bodies are fugly and every hillbilly in America has at least one.

4th gen: F-bodies BY FAR, both looks and performance. I had two 98 T/A's then went to a 2005 Mustang GT (5th gen), even though the Mustang was newer and even a newer gen, just speaking of engines the 4.6L felt like a step backwards from the LS1's. Note, there were no new f-bodies at the time I got the Mustang GT.

5th gen: Tie. I like the S197's and obviously the 5th gen Camaros. The intro of Ford's 5.0L was a big step up from the 4.6L when it happened mid gen.

6th gen: Camaro BY FAR. I just do NOT like the looks of the S550, although the GT350/500 look pretty good. The GT's on down look terrible. The 16-18 Camaro SS are great looking and better performers than the S550 cars. The 6th gen ZL1 is one of the most perfect looking and all around performing cars for the price ever made. 6th gen Camaro has a better chassis, too.

Overall, I give the F-body/Camaro the win. The only year Mustangs I would ever spend money on are the 1st gens and S197 cars. And from 71-98, the Mustang was absolutely FUGLY, the 99+ new edge car gave slightly better looks, then the S197 looked good, then back to crappy looks with the S550. Whereas I would gladly spend my money on any gen F-body/Camaro except the 2nd gen.

Fully agreed, except on early 2nd Gen Camaros (70-73) - they are sexy and have the best taillights of any pony car ever made.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In my 38 years at GM I have owned 2 Corvettes, 1 Camaro (current car) and....








4 Mustangs

Which year Corvettes did you own?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Which year Corvettes did you own?

1987 and 2006.

Mustangs were ‘74 notchback, ‘76 Cobra, and 2 ‘79 Pace Cars (one 2.3T, one 5.0L). All the Mustangs were bought used while I was in college. General Motors Institute What can I say, I was a rebel. Fitting that I spend the last 10 years of my GM career in Competitor Intelligence.

[1LE_Crush]

2007 Mustang V6 (4.0)(Auto)
2008 Mustang GT (4.6)(Stick)
2010 Mustang V6 (3.7)(Auto)
2011 Challenger R/T (5.7)(Stick)
2015 C7 (6.2)(Stick)
2015 Mustang GT (5.0)(Stick)
2016 C7 (6.2)(Stick)
2017 Daytona 392 (...6.4)(Auto)

Now Currently in a 2019 2SS 1LE (Stick of course)

I think I have run the gamut in recent years with generations and engines and quality yadda yadda. The top 2 most fun cars I have owned have been the 2017 Daytona and 2016 C7. Now in all honesty the 1LE has kicked the C7 to #3(My 16 C7 was non-Z51 but had Mag Ride and NPP). Cars today are awesome and I used to be a hardcore Mustang Fanboy. Now I just appreciate cars that give me the all around better experience and this Camaro has yet to disappoint. My top car used to be my 16 C7 until I started a family. I'm not the type of guy that wants something just for me. I want to share the experience with my wife and kid too. The Camaro does that. The C7 I felt connected to. The Daytona was just a Hoon mobile but the Camaro I feel connected to, I never felt that in a Mustang except for my 2008 GT. That's why the Bowtie has me reeled in. Okay enough rambling from me.

[Xbrentx]

Blaqwhole you summed it up perfectly

[cbr1100xx]

I had a '19 GT and now a '19 SS. I don't think it's really a close contest. The SS feels way more like a sports car and I think it looks way more sporty/meaner. Look at the hood on the SS compared to the GT.....come on....

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by cbr1100xx

I had a '19 GT and now a '19 SS. I don't think it's really a close contest. The SS feels way more like a sports car and I think it looks way more sporty/meaner. Look at the hood on the SS compared to the GT.....come on....

It looks like yours was a base GT. The PP1 is more comparable to the SS. I don't really care how "mean" a car looks, really, just how good it looks. IMO the '18+ GT PP1 is better looking than any 6th gen SS.