[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You just don't let up with that nonsense about handling too good or being underpowered for the chassis. That's your opinion, apparantly you just like spinout machines. You can easily make an ss or ss 1le kick out the rear end if you want to and hoon around.

The SS 1LE is faster than it feels.

When I got mine, I had 2 weeks with both my previous M3 with DCT and the SS 1LE and even though on paper and in tests they are right next to each other in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, the M3 with its twin turbo and DCT felt quite a bit quicker.

N/A power can be deceptive, it doesn't give you that "lose your stomach" feeling.

I could use an additional 50 HP & TQ in mine, however, I do not agree that it is underpowered for the chassis. As you said, you can at will spin the rear tires in most cases. Only on a hot day or with fresh rubber will it stick at full throttle. To me, that is the perfect balance of power to chassis.

I had in the past a C6 Z06 and 1st and part of 2nd gear was useless in all conditions under full throttle. I would imagine the ZL1 is the same.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You can easily make an ss or ss 1le kick out the rear end if you want to and hoon around.

Yeah obviously by forcing it too. Stomp on the gas and wrench the wheel, thats no fun.

Fun is driving at or near the limit. I don’t have the balls to take the camaro to it’s handling limits on the street. I didn’t have many options where I was driving it except on-ramps and off ramps. I was doing nearly 70mph on them and it didn’t feel even close to the limit. No tires screeching, no feedback from the chassis telling you “whoa buddy slow the hell down”, no body roll, no nothing. Might as well been as much fun as driving it at 40mph.

Sorry, but that’s too damn fast for fun on the street.

[JROC]

I went from a 99 GT to an 03 Cobra. Everything was better other than handling. "But JROC Terminators have an IRS, bigger/better tires, Bilstein HD's, bigger anti-swaybars, etc, etc and we all know a Foxbody/SN95 4 link is a huge POS." All true, and the Terminator cornered flatter with a more composed rearend, but it's frontend was slower to rotate, and was quicker to push and understeer. You could definitely feel the extra 150ish lbs over the front of the car. Much of a Terminators weight increase over a SRA Mustang from its era came from the IRS. With a ZL1 almost if not all of its extra weight comes from the front.

455 hp/lb-ft is not weak. People have managed to break into 11's with these cars. But yes Alpha is good enough to handle more HP.

[Redlinez]

All the 1LE needs is basic bolt ons and a tune to really wake it up. An extra 50-60 rwhp and torque makes a huge difference.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Hi Guys,

Only for those that have experienced the driving of both the 6th gen Camaro SS1LE & the ZL1 (non 1LE model). Which one is the most balanced handling sport car? Not talking about HP, we already know that based on power the ZL1 is superior. Which one would be the top driver's car?

Note: I didn't included the ZL1 1LE because is a more track focused model.

I think this is a tricky question to answer because it can be taken multiple ways.

The most "balanced" handling sports car...meaning out of the sports cars that can handle, which is the most balanced? I would say the ZL1 is because it just does everything better than the SLE besides the actual handling. And for that we would need to see which one has better Gs. If the SLE actually does handle better then that is just one metric where it outperforms the ZL1 and even with that it still won't beat a ZL1 on any track.

The most "balanced handling" sports car...meaning which sports car is better balanced at handling? I think it is a toss up and any difference would come down to splitting hairs. What would have to happen would be to put the same engine/trans in both cars and see which one is superior. I think the SLE might be more track focused. But I also think the ZL1 comes standard with handling capabilities that will rival the SLE at worst.

The thing is I doubt GM would build a $60K+ ultimate sports car and then build a much cheaper lower trim sports car that has a superior performance metric. That is something Ford would do and has done...which is why the $30K base model GT kicks the $75K GT350's ass in the quarter mile. I could be wrong. And even if GM did do that, then at least like I said, the SLE will not beat a ZL1 on a track. But it seems to me like GM puts their cars in tiers where the top of one tier is just under or about equal to the bottom of the next tier. So the V61LE might be on par with the bare SS. The SLE might be slightly behind the ZL1. So on and so on. Same with the Vette. Base > Z51 > GS > Z06 > ZR1. Due to handling characteristics you might have a lower tier that can have a higher top speed than the higher tier as we see with the ZL1 vs the ZLE and the Base C8 vs the Z51. But there is no way around that.

So ultimately I would say that the ZL1 is the better handling sports car.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think this is a tricky question to answer because it can be taken multiple ways.

The most "balanced" handling sports car...meaning out of the sports cars that can handle, which is the most balanced? I would say the ZL1 is because it just does everything better than the SLE besides the actual handling. And for that we would need to see which one has better Gs. If the SLE actually does handle better then that is just one metric where it outperforms the ZL1 and even with that it still won't beat a ZL1 on any track.

The most "balanced handling" sports car...meaning which sports car is better balanced at handling? I think it is a toss up and any difference would come down to splitting hairs. What would have to happen would be to put the same engine/trans in both cars and see which one is superior. I think the SLE might be more track focused. But I also think the ZL1 comes standard with handling capabilities that will rival the SLE at worst.

The thing is I doubt GM would build a $60K+ ultimate sports car and then build a much cheaper lower trim sports car that has a superior performance metric. That is something Ford would do and has done...which is why the $30K base model GT kicks the $75K GT350's ass in the quarter mile. I could be wrong. And even if GM did do that, then at least like I said, the SLE will not beat a ZL1 on a track. But it seems to me like GM puts their cars in tiers where the top of one tier is just under or about equal to the bottom of the next tier. So the V61LE might be on par with the bare SS. The SLE might be slightly behind the ZL1. So on and so on. Same with the Vette. Base > Z51 > GS > Z06 > ZR1. Due to handling characteristics you might have a lower tier that can have a higher top speed than the higher tier as we see with the ZL1 vs the ZLE and the Base C8 vs the Z51. But there is no way around that.

So ultimately I would say that the ZL1 is the better handling sports car.

there are some metrics where the SS1LE does beat the ZL1 but for the most part those come down to weight and weight distribution.

It is a very tough question to which is best balanced I would say that would come down to the individual. In terms of just pure metrics the ZL1 will win that discussion, but preference that depends on the individual. Some people might prefer the 1LE because it's lighter and might be easier/more enjoyable to push harder since it doesn't have the extra weight and power.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

there are some metrics where the SS1LE does beat the ZL1 but for the most part those come down to weight and weight distribution.

It is a very tough question to which is best balanced I would say that would come down to the individual. In terms of just pure metrics the ZL1 will win that discussion, but preference that depends on the individual. Some people might prefer the 1LE because it's lighter and might be easier/more enjoyable to push harder since it doesn't have the extra weight and power.

This. The zl1 might be a better sports car and more balanced sports car to some, but the question is handling and handling balance. Pretty hard to argue against the ss 1le in handling and handling balance imo. However if your chasing lap times then the zl1 will obviously be capable of faster lap times for obvious reasons.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I include a comment from the August 2017 Motortrend's H2H of the Shelby GT350R VS the Camaro ZL1:


"That big lump of a supercharged V-8-while potent-puts way too much weight in exactly the wrong spot. For reference, the SS 1LE weighs in at 3,735 pounds. I will also go on record stating that I preferred the way the SS 1LE handled compared to the ZL1-and also to the GT350R."

MT was just talking out their ass when they made that comment. It was pretty much one of the stupidest things anyone with a brain could say. And the only purpose for them saying that was to somehow try to justify giving Ford a win. GM designed that entire car even with the blower in mind. In fact they dropped what, like, 100 pounds on the previous Gen SS even factoring the blower into it. They didn't just build the car and then slapped a blower on it like this comment makes it seem like. And everything from the weight to the weight distribution to the fact that it does everything extremely well to the fact that it took Ford 3 years and $20K+ more money and more HP to still lose kinda proves that this comment was retarded.

Not to mention that "big lump" was actually just a 1.7 liter blower that was used because it fit under the hood of the Vette. Even that was used with the entire design process in mind.

[JROC]

A good figure to show just how balanced and controlled a SS 1LE is, is to compare it's figure 8 times that MT does to other cars. It keeps some impressive company matching R35 Nismo's, 911 GT3's, etc. It ever ran the figure 8 a tenth quicker than a ZL1 1LE, (# 31) and 4 tenths quicker than a GT350R. (#53)

The SS 1LE is #22 on this list.

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/motortrend-figure-8

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by JROC

A good figure to show just how balanced and controlled a SS 1LE is, is to compare it's figure 8 times that MT does to other cars. It keeps some impressive company matching R35 Nismo's, 911 GT3's, etc. It ever ran the figure 8 a tenth quicker than a ZL1 1LE, (# 31) and 4 tenths quicker than a GT350R. (#53)

The SS 1LE is #22 on this list.

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/motortrend-figure-8

Good point

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

MT was just talking out their ass when they made that comment. It was pretty much one of the stupidest things anyone with a brain could say. And the only purpose for them saying that was to somehow try to justify giving Ford a win. GM designed that entire car even with the blower in mind. In fact they dropped what, like, 100 pounds on the previous Gen SS even factoring the blower into it. They didn't just build the car and then slapped a blower on it like this comment makes it seem like. And everything from the weight to the weight distribution to the fact that it does everything extremely well to the fact that it took Ford 3 years and $20K+ more money and more HP to still lose kinda proves that this comment was retarded.

Not to mention that "big lump" was actually just a 1.7 liter blower that was used because it fit under the hood of the Vette. Even that was used with the entire design process in mind.

Don't take this the wrong way blaq but that's where it seems you can't separate measurable data from perceived feeling. That MT comment is not a knock on the ZL1 but a praise of the SS1LE.

as JROC pointed out the SS1LE has a better figure 8 than the ZL1 and ZLE...I would bet a large chunk of change that that is simply due to it being lighter. A lighter car is going to feel like it handles better and is more nimble than a heavy car. Now you may still feel that that ZL1 handles better nothing wrong with that. My only issue is you basically said anyone that feels the SS1LE handles better is an idiot lol or at least that is the way it reads

[Lafourche1]

I think this Motor Trend comparison was one of the most ridiculous conclusions on record. The ZL1, won every single performance metric. In more than one video both Randy and the other presenters talked about how the ZL1 made them better drivers. They are also on record as how the Z06 was diabolical and looking to kill them. To somehow grant the GT350R a win was simply to say that we don't have any good reason to do it, but we are going to anyway. Fact of the matter, Randy made a VinWiki YouTube where he was talking about hot lapping Road Atlanta in three hyper-cars. He mentioned the Z06 in passing saying he was told and agreed that you should not turn off the electronic nannies in the Z06.

To the original point: I have never driven a SS 1LE. I can see where they are a more balanced handling car. Lighter does that. However, there is another question about what car is the more balanced and capable car in general. I think the ZL1 has high marks in that metric.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Don't take this the wrong way blaq but that's where it seems you can't separate measurable data from perceived feeling. That MT comment is not a knock on the ZL1 but a praise of the SS1LE.

as JROC pointed out the SS1LE has a better figure 8 than the ZL1 and ZLE...I would bet a large chunk of change that that is simply due to it being lighter. A lighter car is going to feel like it handles better and is more nimble than a heavy car. Now you may still feel that that ZL1 handles better nothing wrong with that. My only issue is you basically said anyone that feels the SS1LE handles better is an idiot lol or at least that is the way it reads

My comment was about the MT article with the ZL1 vs the GT350R. It had nothing to do with the SLE. And I just said in my comment before this that I am not sure which of the two handle better. So what are you confused about.

And I couldn't care less about "perceived" data. You don't win a race because you think you went faster. We don't get in a car and determine it is faster because it feels faster. Shit, a simple throttle controller can make a car feel much faster and it'll do the same quarter mile without it. If feeling faster floats your boat then that works for you. I want to be faster. And this isn't a family car. These are cars built for one purpose and that is performance. So data is all that matters. Now what happens in Mustang world is no concern of mine.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I think this Motor Trend comparison was one of the most ridiculous conclusions on record. The ZL1, won every single performance metric. In more than one video both Randy and the other presenters talked about how the ZL1 made them better drivers. They are also on record as how the Z06 was diabolical and looking to kill them. To somehow grant the GT350R a win was simply to say that we don't have any good reason to do it, but we are going to anyway. Fact of the matter, Randy made a VinWiki YouTube where he was talking about hot lapping Road Atlanta in three hyper-cars. He mentioned the Z06 in passing saying he was told and agreed that you should not turn off the electronic nannies in the Z06.

To the original point: I have never driven a SS 1LE. I can see where they are a more balanced handling car. Lighter does that. However, there is another question about what car is the more balanced and capable car in general. I think the ZL1 has high marks in that metric.

I really didn't care who they picked as the "winner". The could pick the EB Stank as the winner for all I care. My only consideration was the results and that showed us which car performs better.