07-17-2018, 01:37 PM | #1877 | |
Drives: 1SS, A8, MRC, NPP, Blade Spoiler Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MD
Posts: 1,485
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07-17-2018, 02:21 PM | #1878 | |
Drives: 2019 GT350 Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 3,232
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2019 GT350 RR
2013 Boss Mustang 2012 SRT Challenger 392 auto 12:40s 112 stock 2012 Ford Mustang 5.0. Brembo, 3:73s 2010 SS, LS3, Cammed, LTs, 12:20s 2004 Redfire Cobra, Pullied & Tuned 1986 GT, Ed Curtis 347ci, 11:20s motor. 10:30s 100-hp shot |
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07-17-2018, 02:52 PM | #1879 | |
Drives: 1969 Mustang MaCh1 Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SJ
Posts: 835
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A lot of people have a misconception of what the MSC2's offer. They must be fully warmed up to get the full benefit, otherwise the MPS4S actually offer more grip for most occasions (street). MSC2's are even too aggressive to use in autocross, where tire temps start off relatively cool. I agree that the PP2 should not have been offered with MSC2's being that it's really more of a track tire than a street tire. It'll probably show a solid 1-1.5 second lap improvement over the MPS4S tho. I will say if you buy any new car without added coolers with the intentions of tracking the car at all, and then expect it to perform, then you are an unimformed idiot. Plain and simple. I don't think it is Fords fault at as all for not offering them (ie '16 GT350 base/Tech Pack), that is irrelevant. If anything, I think that's a good thing for 99% of the buying public to help keep costs down.
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1969 Pro-Touring MaCh 1 - CHP 427w 10.8 comp - 3140 lbs. - 460 rwhp / 490 rwtqT56 Magnum || 14" 6 piston front / 13" 4 piston rear Wilwood brakes || Hydraulic clutch || 9" Detroit Locker || TCP Coilovers || Forgeline Wheels 18x10 275/35 front, 19x12 325/30 rear |
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07-19-2018, 07:42 AM | #1880 |
Drives: Wicked Fast Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 54
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Adding the trans and diff coolers are only like $1200 in parts to add to any PP2 car. This is a model below the 65k GT350. Pretty simple upgrade for dedicated track junkies. .
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07-19-2018, 07:51 AM | #1881 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,229
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I would have no issues with a PP2 with Super Sports and no added coolers. I would have no issues with PP2 with Cup 2s and added coolers. I think if you (as a manufacturer) are going to use one, but not the other, added coolers and option up to Cup 2 makes sense. Leaving off coolers because most people won’t track it anyway AND equipping it with track focused tires makes no sense. It’s like buying an engagement ring, renting the hall, and then saying “I’d rather Netflix and chill.”
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A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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07-19-2018, 08:08 AM | #1882 |
Drives: E92 BMW M3 Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,496
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Yet, Ford wont warranty a car that is tracked. Any track junkie knows between the two that the 1LE is the right choice to make.
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07-19-2018, 08:09 AM | #1883 | |
Drives: 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR Join Date: May 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 964
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Agreed the coolers should be at least an option from the factory. I have little sympathy for those that bought the base '16 GT350 and then complained about it overheating on the track. If they were going to track it, why didn't they buy the package that came with the coolers? Probably because they couldn't afford it, but that is still not a reason to get all pissy over Ford over it. Obviously the base GT350 was there for people who were just going to keep the GT350 on the streets. I could see them being a bit pissy in how they packaged the coolers with other crap that made the price sky rocket, but not for offering the GT350 without coolers. I don't believe people should have to go after market to finish a car. It should come from the factory finished. Either through optional packages or standard. One thing if an owner can only afford the car without the coolers at first and will add them later. It's another when the OEM puts the task of finishing the car to all owners. All intents and purposes, the PP2 is a track capable vehicle and a worthy 1LE competitor. It's just crippled by the fact it can't sustain it. Sort of like the last GT500 where its brakes would overheat after 1-2 laps. |
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07-19-2018, 08:11 AM | #1884 | |
Drives: E92 BMW M3 Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,496
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I think this Gen is starting to wear on all but the most hardcore blue oval guys.
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SOLD - 2013 1LE - Pat G Spec'd Cam, NPP with 1 7/8" Long Tube Headers with High Flow Cats, Intake w/scoop, Ported Throttle Body, and Apex 1.25" Lowering Springs.
J-Rod Built and Matt@FSP Tuned |
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07-19-2018, 08:15 AM | #1885 | |
Drives: E92 BMW M3 Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,496
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On your second point, this seems to be Ford's MO this generation. I can see why from a certain standpoint, the Mustang has always been a car that owners HEAVILY modify and love to make their own, even more so than the the Camaro and Challenger. Keeping costs low and allowing some cushion for the customer to customize makes complete sense to a point, but when the car is essentially as you said 'unfinished' from the factory then they have taken it a bit far. The Mustang is no longer cheap, so why someone would buy these unfinished auto's is beyond me. Maybe they dont know what they are buying(or not buying really)?
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SOLD - 2013 1LE - Pat G Spec'd Cam, NPP with 1 7/8" Long Tube Headers with High Flow Cats, Intake w/scoop, Ported Throttle Body, and Apex 1.25" Lowering Springs.
J-Rod Built and Matt@FSP Tuned |
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07-19-2018, 09:02 AM | #1886 | |
Drives: Tesla M3 LR-AWD [Former 1SS owner] Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Miami
Posts: 950
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Looking at the way Ford packaged their options, the bean counter influence isn't hard to spot. Ok, so the manufacturers are in it for a profit, that's understood, but it seems Ford took it to another level in gouging their fan base. I can't blame them in some ways, since their base seem to be OK forking over the cash regardless. But if you're going to market a car as track capable (or even imply it is), whether it be a GT 350, PP2 or whatever, at least include the minimum hardware necessary like GM did with the SS. If not, then clearly state the additional requirements. It is misleading and purposefully so IMO. Ford has to take some crap for that. At the same time, we both agree that a lot of the blame has to go to the individuals who bought without doing the necessary research. GM can be criticized for all sorts of things, but what you get with a Camaro SS (all trims) cannot be touched by any GT so far in terms of value for money. And that fact is becoming more and more apparent every day as you read the forums. |
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07-19-2018, 09:28 AM | #1887 |
Banned
Drives: 2013 GB GT Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 954
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Any car leaving the factory with SC2 should be capable of sustained track use. Hopefully there is a backlash shit storm for this. Ford has it coming this time... more so then with the base/tech 350’s
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07-19-2018, 09:50 AM | #1888 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
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I glanced at the other site. Didn't see a ton of people depending Ford so that is a step in the right direction. There are a few who said never was intended as a track pack, some who don't care because they won't track it and a good chunk saying they should have just added the coolers. |
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07-19-2018, 10:05 AM | #1889 | |
Drives: 1SS, A8, MRC, NPP, Blade Spoiler Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MD
Posts: 1,485
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That's why we see the same mistakes by Ford. Chevy didn't add enough cooling capacity when they designed the C7 Corvette. They got embarrassed when magazines were trying to test the Z06, and it went into limp mode. BUT, they learned their lesson, that's why the Camaro has coolers up the ying yang. And it works great. On track, off track, anywhere. But Ford got embarrassed by the whole GT350 Base/Tech Pack/Track Pack overheating issue, and all the Ford guys attacked the buyers. Even Zeke is here on this board preemptively saying that anyone who buys a PP2 and takes it to the track is a dummy. He's already blaming folks who haven't even bought the car yet, let alone complained. Wow. But this time that argument is even more pathetic. Because, at least with the GT350 the jerks could argue "hey, there was a track pack with the coolers you know. Why didn't you get that?" But now they don't even have that argument with the GT, because coolers aren't even an option on this car. A car they spent tuning the MRC and aerodynamics at VIR with a race car driver giving feedback at how it does ON A TRACK AT 140 MPH. Why even waste the effort and money on that? Why adjust the aerodynamics for 140 MPH turns on a track? Why put tires on it that are only good on the track? Why not offer PP2 with the auto, or in a convertible? Because their goal was to beat the 1LE ON A TRACK, and they hoped that it wouldn't overheat, but it did. Now they are backpedaling and saying, "well, it wasn't meant for the track". |
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07-19-2018, 10:18 AM | #1890 | |
Drives: '18 Zl1. '18 GT350. Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Katy
Posts: 2,104
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haha, well said. Ford guys are something else. It's like some addiction. Once they own 1 Ford, it's almost impossible to pry that Blue Oval from their dead hands. Even with facts right in front of them. Ford is losing the battle. Chevy and Dodge are putting out constantly better performers. On track and at the drag strip. They have a loooooooooooooooooong way to go before they make a car to wipe the Zl1 1LE off it's block. Even the Zl1 for that matter. They have nothing in the tank for Dodge right now either. They are banking on the 500 being their Halo Mustang and at this point, who knows how it's going to perform.
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There's only 2 people I trust. 1 of them is me, the other's not you. 2018 Zl1. 1199 RWHP/931 TQ.
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