[Palutz]

Originally Posted by Mike818

we have to station troops in other countries so that you can reliably fuel your vehicle.... I really don't know what you are all on about "own merits".

America could be energy independent if the right people ran out country. The Permian Basin alone could satisfy the vehicles on the road today.

[Mike818]

Sure fellas, you got all the answers. It's that other 99.whatever % of career professionals that have it all wrong.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mike818

Sure fellas, you got all the answers. It's that other 99.whatever % of career professionals that have it all wrong.

You’re reading my thought balloons. Has anybody looked at weather maps lately? Just asking.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Number 3

If you consider EPA and CARB Government masters? And any ICE powertrain doesn't satisfy those two.

CARB is the real pain here, although I'm pretty sure no one would want to drive an EPA compliant car in a few years. Last I recall, and it's been a while, EPA GHG rules were the equivalent of 50 MPG. There are no Camaros in that landscape either.

EPA has not banned ICE. CARB has.

I do believe those agencies are acting as if they were lords of all they survey. Easy to blame California, but who made California the right to set rules that have a nationwide impact by themselves....? Yeah, the Feds did.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Some of us "old cranks" would like to EVs succeed on their own merits, without government subsidies, regulations driving out competing/legacy technologies, and free market manipulations like carbon exchanges. I don't hate change, just think this one is being forced upon us, top-down, too quickly, at great expense to the consumer and the taxpayer.

I agree. If EVs were all that some young punks hold them out to be they wouldn't need subsidies nor would they need the government regulating ICE's out of existence to succeed.

Every generation thinks they're something new under the sun and they have all the answers. Every generation eventually ages, gains perspective and looks back at their younger selves and thinks WTF was I thinking.

The exceptions are those who don't make it, and those without the capacity for self reflection.

[Martinjlm]

The real issue is, automotive propulsion stopped being about which approach is favored with no subsidies (there are subsidies on both sides) and became all about managing carbon emissions. EV and Hydrogen Fuel Cell are clearly favored approaches to reducing carbon emissions and so that’s the way the world’s automakers are turning. From Tesla to Freightliner they are all headed in that direction no matter who likes it and who doesn’t like it. At this point the incentive programs are designed to speed up the rate of transition.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

You’re reading my thought balloons. Has anybody looked at weather maps lately? Just asking.

I respect you here but my first thought reading above was, And yet you both still own v8’s. Come on folks, backup your beliefs and stop expecting the government to solve all our problems. It always seems it’s those that push for the change have skin to gain instead of skin to give.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

You’re reading my thought balloons. Has anybody looked at weather maps lately? Just asking.

Climate change!! Climate change!! The earth is going to freeze!! The earth is going to boil!! Repent, the end is nye!!

We used to just call it weather and go on with our lives.

Funny, 50 years ago when I grew up swimming in the Gulf of Mexico the mean high tide line was exactly where it is today. What happened to the polar ice caps melting.

Saint Thunberg, predicted we would pass the point of no return already. Al (I invented the Internet) Gore predicted the TEOTWAWKI would occur 15+ years ago. When I was in high school all the experts predicted a new ice age would occur in the 1990s.

I'm still waiting.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Climate change!! Climate change!! The earth is going to freeze!! The earth is going to boil!! Repent, the end is nye!!

We used to just call it weather and go on with our lives.

Funny, 50 years ago when I grew up swimming in the Gulf of Mexico the mean high tide line was exactly where it is today. What happened to the polar ice caps melting.

Saint Thunberg, predicted we would pass the point of no return already. Al (I invented the Internet) Gore predicted the TEOTWAWKI would occur 15+ years ago. When I was in high school all the experts predicted a new ice age would occur in the 1990s.

I'm still waiting.

Yeah, we used to call it weather and I’ve been witness to a lot of it. I was in Buffalo during the Blizzard of ‘77. I’e been in New Orleans when the fringes of a hurricane sent our campsite floating. Those were (we thought) once in a lifetime event.

But then you get cities in Texas with 20+ consecutive days of triple digit temperatures, 5 consecutive over 115. And the same week the downtown of capital city of a New England state hit with a flash flood over the course of about an hour. Lifetime events and “100 year storms” are now happening on a weekly basis. Yup, just weather. Nothin’ to see here.

[FarmerFran]

We are looking at a cross section of the earth's temperature over about, 150 years-ish. How old is the earth? And how many changes has it gone through?



Answer A LOT

[Gen6cyl]

Founder of green peace said climate experts are full of it. I would be happy if they capped engine displacement at 3.6 liters.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Realist

I respect you here but my first thought reading above was, And yet you both still own v8’s. Come on folks, backup your beliefs and stop expecting the government to solve all our problems. It always seems it’s those that push for the change have skin to gain instead of skin to give.

I absolutely do own a V8 (running on E85, but more for performance reasons) because my beliefs aren’t arranged around “either or”. I fully expect that ICE will be around for several more decades and so I have a couple. I also believe that EVs will be the majority of new cars sold sooner than most believe it will happen. But they won’t be the only cars sold. The script will simply flip from where it is today. Instead of 88% ICE / 12% EV (sales, not population) it’ll flip to about 35% ICE / 65% BEV by 2035 (sales, not population).

Personally I don’t push for the change. I also don’t rant against it. I recognize that the change is in motion. I analyze it. I make investments based on it. I adjust to it, and I keep it moving.

[Mike818]

Originally Posted by Realist

I respect you here but my first thought reading above was, And yet you both still own v8’s. Come on folks, backup your beliefs and stop expecting the government to solve all our problems. It always seems it’s those that push for the change have skin to gain instead of skin to give.

Reality isn't about passing virtue signaling purity tests. Transition to renewables as it makes sense in the context of your life.

This is the kind of problem we need governments to solve.

[crazedmodder]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Some of us "old cranks" would like to EVs succeed on their own merits, without government subsidies, regulations driving out competing/legacy technologies, and free market manipulations like carbon exchanges. I don't hate change, just think this one is being forced upon us, top-down, too quickly, at great expense to the consumer and the taxpayer.

I agree there shouldn't be any free market manipulation. GM and Dodge should have went away in 2008 along with the Camaro and Challenger.


I'm sad even being sarcastic about that scenario.


To at least keep this a bit on topic, I like EVs and I like ICE, most cars have some cool things about them. I'm genuinely interested to see what GM can do with an EV sedan, they're pretty good at chassis development. Not in love with reusing the Camaro name for a sedan but Ford did worse in my eyes with the Mach-E being an SUV.