[CamaroRSOnt]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

I got passed by a new Hemi Challenger Scat Pack on the interstate today. The owner put 5 letters on his license plate that say it all: “LOL EV.”

Good one!


Aside from the fact EV's are more expensive even with the subsidies and make little sense for that reason (more dollars, less utility) I wouldn't buy one for just one reason.

I don't want to have to charge a EV in my attached garage while I sleep at night. When just a couple of those many thousands of individual cells decide to short out and start a fire there is no stopping it, you are going to lose your house, maybe your dog and your family.

Crazy that GM started telling Bolt owners to park at least 50 feet away from structures after they burned down a couple of houses. I know some apartment buildings with underground lots won't let Ev's in them. Read an article that a fire chief says 200 gallons to put out a regular car fire, for a EV 20,000 gallons might not do it and then they start back up hours later.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Mike818

https://pessimistsarchive.org/

"Pessimists Archive is a project to jog our collective memories about the hysteria, technophobia and moral panic that often greets new technologies, ideas and trends."


People don't change.

Here's a list of technologies people got all excited about that didn't live up to their hype.

https://www.computerworld.com/articl...ogy-flops.html

People don't change.

[Palutz]

I find it funny that some try to stir the beehive on a muscle car forum pushing their wet dream ... buy what you want people stop trying to convince others of the "right' way to live. I'm not gonna go on a EV forum and waste my life trying to push my beliefs that an American made V8 raises testosterone because there are better things in life than arguing online.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Nailed it again. I don’t know what you do for a living but they better be paying you well.

You're too kind Wyzz Kydd, thank you very much. You must know by now that the respect is mutual.

I'm a software developer with no reason to complain, God has blessed me in many ways along my unusual turns in life and my several careers. Anyway, my yardstick of being "rich" is having just a bit more than one uses or needs for others, and by standard I'm rich. Heck, I even have a Camaro that I bought new (first new car in my life, probably the last, too) and was able to build it to the max that I can handle.

Originally Posted by jamala00

There will always be people that fall into that narrative. Guys and Gals... But he said "most guys" what 2 or 3 times in his post. Maybe it depends on who your circle of friends and family are as to what you see and what your experiences are. I'm not sure about you, but my circle of friends and family do not fall into that narrative. So I can't say "Most Guys" by any stretch...

Friends and family is a small circle, many times a bubble of like minds we shouldn't extrapolate from. I based my post more on my work experience, I personally met and meaningfully interacted with at least a thousand people from most corners of the world throughout the years, and while it's nowhere near the total 8 billion, it's a much better sample than just family and friends. (Being old school and having grown up without computers or the internet, online presence always feels much less than real to me—oh the irony of me typing this into a forum chat box, but whatever —, so I can easily disregard that.)

I can attest that there is a pervasive lack of real, authentic men in our society, which is what I took as the gist of genxer's semi-hidden message. Been working on at least not being part of that problem for many years. But all this is way off topic, I'll end it here before evoking too much moderator irk.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Friends and family is a small circle, many times a bubble of like minds we shouldn't extrapolate from. I based my post more on my work experience, I personally met and meaningfully interacted with at least a thousand people from most corners of the world throughout the years, and while it's nowhere near the total 8 billion, it's a much better sample than just family and friends. (Being old school and having grown up without computers or the internet, online presence always feels much less than real to me—oh the irony of me typing this into a forum chat box, but whatever —, so I can easily disregard that.)

I can attest that there is a pervasive lack of real, authentic men in our society, which is what I took as the gist of genxer's semi-hidden message. Been working on at least not being part of that problem for many years. But all this is way off topic, I'll end it here before evoking too much moderator irk.

Ya, my issue with his post is the use of "Most Men". Weather it be friends and family or your example of sample size... neither are remotely close to any real statistics (and to my knowledge there are no relevant statistics) that you'd need to say "Most Men" I too have been in IT for almost 30 years. I don't even fit that narrative and I'm in tech for a living. Anyway...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Afraid of upsetting their government masters?

If you consider EPA and CARB Government masters? And any ICE powertrain doesn't satisfy those two.

CARB is the real pain here, although I'm pretty sure no one would want to drive an EPA compliant car in a few years. Last I recall, and it's been a while, EPA GHG rules were the equivalent of 50 MPG. There are no Camaros in that landscape either.

EPA has not banned ICE. CARB has.

[Mike818]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Here's a list of technologies people got all excited about that didn't live up to their hype.

https://www.computerworld.com/articl...ogy-flops.html

People don't change.

LOL, first example is the Apple Newton. Take a look around lately?

"Still, before it faded away in 1998, Newton paved the way for PDAs, which led, in turn, to today's smart phones. In particular, the smaller, cheaper Palm Pilot, which was released in 1995 and became a runaway success."


These EV threads are always the same, just a bunch of old cranks whining about change.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Mike818

These EV threads are always the same, just a bunch of old cranks whining about change.

Some of us "old cranks" would like to EVs succeed on their own merits, without government subsidies, regulations driving out competing/legacy technologies, and free market manipulations like carbon exchanges. I don't hate change, just think this one is being forced upon us, top-down, too quickly, at great expense to the consumer and the taxpayer.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Some of us "old cranks" would like to EVs succeed on their own merits, without government subsidies, regulations driving out competing/legacy technologies, and free market manipulations like carbon exchanges. I don't hate change, just think this one is being forced upon us, top-down, too quickly, at great expense to the consumer and the taxpayer.

With you here. I think ultimately EVs will be the better choice for nearly all consumers. We are past the early adopter stage but it isn’t mature. Of course if you track ICE through the last 40 years it didn’t really reach maturity until maybe 5 or 6 years ago.

Totally agree there should be no subsidies for buying an EV or subsidies for charging infrastructure. But I do believe the technology needs to stand on its own. And I believe it will.

[Mike818]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Some of us "old cranks" would like to EVs succeed on their own merits, without government subsidies, regulations driving out competing/legacy technologies, and free market manipulations like carbon exchanges. I don't hate change, just think this one is being forced upon us, top-down, too quickly, at great expense to the consumer and the taxpayer.

Maybe you don't see the merits, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Some of us are going to be around here for a while and we would kind of like it to not suck ass. I would assume people with children / grand children would care something about the world they are leaving behind as well.

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Some of us "old cranks" would like to EVs succeed on their own merits, without government subsidies, regulations driving out competing/legacy technologies, and free market manipulations like carbon exchanges. I don't hate change, just think this one is being forced upon us, top-down, too quickly, at great expense to the consumer and the taxpayer.

Absolutely correct!

[Mike818]

we have to station troops in other countries so that you can reliably fuel your vehicle.... I really don't know what you are all on about "own merits".

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Mike818

Maybe you don't see the merits, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Some of us are going to be around here for a while and we would kind of like it to not suck ass. I would assume people with children / grand children would care something about the world they are leaving behind as well.

Some of us have looked past the whole "99.999 percent of climate scientists seeking grant money believe WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! and requires more study (through grants)" rhetoric/hyperbole and come to the conclusion that even if we bought into the all the alarmism, driving EVs will have negligible impact on the outcome.

Again, maybe I'll get one someday, but... stop trying to FORCE me through policies that limit my choices. If driving one makes you feel better about your children, go for it. Shaming people into rushing into something we don't believe is ready, competitive, or comparable to what we already have won't work, either.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Mike818

we have to station troops in other countries so that you can reliably fuel your vehicle.... I really don't know what you are all on about "own merits".

Actually, we don't have to. At least, not anymore. Plenty of domestic resources available if we allow access to them. Enough for decades, maybe hundreds of years. Fracking is a technology advancement, too. that became pervasive on it's own merits, without subsidies and in the face of regulatory setbacks.

EVs have had the wind at their backs for quite a while now. How much more government intervention will they need to succeed? I predict they probably WILL become pervasive at some point, just quit ramming an unrealistic timetable for adoption down everyone's throats and let the few committed people who really WANT them work all the bugs out.