[Vrodviddy]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

There is a lot of conflicting information on cam swaps. There is a lot of youtube videos of people doing it without having to unbolt the oil pan. Of course a lot of these videos skip all the important details. I can't find a solid answer but I think it is possible to swap the cam without pulling the motor or the oil pan.

I don't understand why you can't just lock the crank in position, then note the position of the stock cam, pull the stock cam off, and put the aftermarket cam in in the exact same orientation? I guess its just really hard to get the timing chain back on without moving things around.

Its possible. I'm living proof, cause did it in car. didn't drop a single pan bolt, nor unbolted motor mounts and lifted engine. That being said, probably would of just been easier and quicker in long run to just pull the engine. Less back breaking to. However! i Have a manual tranny, and didn't need to worry about the torq converter. If you going through hell of the cam and have an auto. You need to pull the engine and upgrade the TC. I wouldn't trust skipping that upgrade. TC torque is low limit from factory and won't stand up to massive torque gains a larger cam will give you. i gained 75hp alone from my cam and that was at the wheel, probably 110 at the crank. Heads would add probably 15ish 20 with good tuner. Also its the torque your looking for really, not hp. Torque = acceleration hp = top speed. If your car is just street car, pretty sure your mostly looking for acceleration.

[Tim M]

Anytime you make the engine more efficient is a good thing. Porting cylinder heads have little downside. Every mod you after that will be that much more effective.

If you have a place like Katech nearby, top notch work and won't negatively impact value to the car - I'd say do it! You will get a quality product for sure! I've spent more for less return certainly.

Cams have drawbacks...but they are certainly attractive at the HP gain (mileage, emissions, driveability concerns).

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Vrodviddy

Its possible. I'm living proof, cause did it in car. didn't drop a single pan bolt, nor unbolted motor mounts and lifted engine. That being said, probably would of just been easier and quicker in long run to just pull the engine. Less back breaking to. However! i Have a manual tranny, and didn't need to worry about the torq converter. If you going through hell of the cam and have an auto. You need to pull the engine and upgrade the TC. I wouldn't trust skipping that upgrade. TC torque is low limit from factory and won't stand up to massive torque gains a larger cam will give you. i gained 75hp alone from my cam and that was at the wheel, probably 110 at the crank. Heads would add probably 15ish 20 with good tuner. Also its the torque your looking for really, not hp. Torque = acceleration hp = top speed. If your car is just street car, pretty sure your mostly looking for acceleration.

I think the argument that you have to pull the engine I guess is the fact that the oil pump is in the way and in front of the crank gear, so you can't tell when the crank and cam gears are lined up, but if you have the heads off I don't see why you cant move to top dead center and put the new cam in with the timing mark at the lowest point you can get it. As long as you don't move anything or let anything move then I guess that would work?

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Vrodviddy

Its possible. I'm living proof, cause did it in car. didn't drop a single pan bolt, nor unbolted motor mounts and lifted engine. That being said, probably would of just been easier and quicker in long run to just pull the engine. Less back breaking to. However! i Have a manual tranny, and didn't need to worry about the torq converter. If you going through hell of the cam and have an auto. You need to pull the engine and upgrade the TC. I wouldn't trust skipping that upgrade. TC torque is low limit from factory and won't stand up to massive torque gains a larger cam will give you. i gained 75hp alone from my cam and that was at the wheel, probably 110 at the crank. Heads would add probably 15ish 20 with good tuner. Also its the torque your looking for really, not hp. Torque = acceleration hp = top speed. If your car is just street car, pretty sure your mostly looking for acceleration.

Heads can be worth more than 15 to 20 on a cammed car, 15 to 20 on the stock cam maybe.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Tim M

Anytime you make the engine more efficient is a good thing. Porting cylinder heads have little downside. Every mod you after that will be that much more effective.

If you have a place like Katech nearby, top notch work and won't negatively impact value to the car - I'd say do it! You will get a quality product for sure! I've spent more for less return certainly.

Cams have drawbacks...but they are certainly attractive at the HP gain (mileage, emissions, driveability concerns).

This. Maybe not that much bang for the buck, but you only get bang and no downsides really.

[Vrodviddy]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

I think the argument that you have to pull the engine I guess is the fact that the oil pump is in the way and in front of the crank gear, so you can't tell when the crank and cam gears are lined up, but if you have the heads off I don't see why you cant move to top dead center and put the new cam in with the timing mark at the lowest point you can get it. As long as you don't move anything or let anything move then I guess that would work?

Ya, like i said you can do it. But involves being patient with the chain. You have to use couple small Flat head screwdrivers, and wiggle the chain off the cam gear. It will seem like it won't come off but totally will.

Your right about tdc, as long as you line up the dots, you won't have a problem. It will be difficult to see the dots, but as long as you know when you put cam gear back in that the pin on the cam is 3 oclock position, and dot is facing 6 oclock position and cyl 1 is tdc you'll be fine. If you somehow bump the crank and move it don't freak out. I actually moved the crank many times while cam was out of the car. But when i reassembled it, i just made sure cyl 1 was tdc, Running my finger over the block on to the cyl, you should feel a slight step going on the cyl as the cyl does come out of the block just ever so slightly. This is when the crank dot is at noon position. If your really nervous about it, you can get one of those spy cams, with long flexible lens that has the light for like 50$ that will let you fit it in there and see on a screen. But again, It would of just been easier to pull it.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Vrodviddy

Ya, like i said you can do it. But involves being patient with the chain. You have to use couple small Flat head screwdrivers, and wiggle the chain off the cam gear. It will seem like it won't come off but totally will.

Your right about tdc, as long as you line up the dots, you won't have a problem. It will be difficult to see the dots, but as long as you know when you put cam gear back in that the pin on the cam is 3 oclock position, and dot is facing 6 oclock position and cyl 1 is tdc you'll be fine. If you somehow bump the crank and move it don't freak out. I actually moved the crank many times while cam was out of the car. But when i reassembled it, i just made sure cyl 1 was tdc, Running my finger over the block on to the cyl, you should feel a slight step going on the cyl as the cyl does come out of the block just ever so slightly. This is when the crank dot is at noon position. If your really nervous about it, you can get one of those spy cams, with long flexible lens that has the light for like 50$ that will let you fit it in there and see on a screen. But again, It would of just been easier to pull it.

Thanks for the info. I also see some people pull just some of the top bolts on the oil pump, I'm assuming you need to leave at least 2 in there so you know it never moved, but I think they pull the top ones so they won't be in way of the chain? I've also heard if you can get more slack in the chain of you hold the tensioner back manually versus pinning it back.

[Vrodviddy]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

Thanks for the info. I also see some people pull just some of the top bolts on the oil pump, I'm assuming you need to leave at least 2 in there so you know it never moved, but I think they pull the top ones so they won't be in way of the chain? I've also heard if you can get more slack in the chain of you hold the tensioner back manually versus pinning it back.

Loosing the top bolts to oil pump will help a little but don't pull them all the way out. Its unlikely you will misalign the pump but not something i would be willing to chance as this would make your oil pressure run next to nothing. manually holding the tension-er would be difficult and really makes no difference. Pro tip: if you decide to so your own, when every thing is back together 2 most important pre-operational checks to take is one manually crank it once heads/valves our back on to check for binding keeping your head covers off while at same time checking in firing order intake/exhaust valves are opening and closing in right order with not to much overlap. Should be pretty smooth all the way through, well smooth as it would be with 300lb springs compressing on the crankshaft. Then continue with belts install, pump, radiator etc. Once you are ready to fire it up. This is super important to a dry fire. This will prime the engine with oil and also give you one final check that everything is smooth running before under actual pressure and heat. I also like to do a compression test as well. Should get 180ish pretty consistently. if not something wrong. When cranking the engine, hold down the gas peddle to the floor. this disables the ignition and fuel pump and just letting the starter spin. This will let you do a good compression test and prime the engine at the same time. hope this helps.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by Vrodviddy

Having done the cam swap myself, i would have to disagree 80% done once heads removed. I'd say more like 30%. Don't need to remove front fascia, radiator, condenser, water pump, etc. in order to swap heads. I will agree that ported heads waste of time without doing the cam also. However personally the cash to power gained ratio didn't seem worth it unless you trying to build a track car and squeeze every bit of power out you can. 1000$ min, for maybe 15-20 hp gain. I passed on it and still able to put 520 to the ground.

Personally, and I'm not exaggerating here, I would rather pull the motor than remove the radiator in these cars.

[Vrodviddy]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

Personally, and I'm not exaggerating here, I would rather pull the motor than remove the radiator in these cars.

removing the radiator isn't actually that bad and you really need to remove anyways when pulling the motor, you risk damaging the radiator otherwise. theres not alot of wiggle room with a swinging engine. But yes agreed, in hind sight, if i had to do it again. its actually quicker in long wrong to pull the engine. So many difficult angles to reach with its still in the car and you get better leverage when torquing. Not to mention you drop a bolt or socket in there, your pulling it anyways.

[Katech_Zach]

I believe the ported heads would benefit a "max effort" stock cam car:

-Ported, Decked Heads
-MSD or equivalent Intake
-Headers
-ATI Underdrive Damper
-Katech CNC LT5 Throttlebody
-E85

[ssmofo]

Waste of time without a cam, even a little one.

[Redlinez]

If you're on a budget, doing all the bolt ons and having the heads ported isn't a waste of time. People spend $1500 on a ported MSD, $1300-1800 for aftermarket catbacks, etc. It's all relative. Some don't want to deal with the inherent aftermarket cam "issues" either.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Vrodviddy

Having done the cam swap myself, i would have to disagree 80% done once heads removed. I'd say more like 30%. Don't need to remove front fascia, radiator, condenser, water pump, etc. in order to swap heads. I will agree that ported heads waste of time without doing the cam also. However personally the cash to power gained ratio didn't seem worth it unless you trying to build a track car and squeeze every bit of power out you can. 1000$ min, for maybe 15-20 hp gain. I passed on it and still able to put 520 to the ground.

word, nothing wrong with heads only, candy job now after my 10th time... In fact this car is pretty easy to work on.

You don't have to drop the pan but you do have to wiggle the chain off toward the rear. No problem indexing the chain. I also have a post on that.