[jamala00]

Originally Posted by zaimer

Right! I sometimes think about it more than I probably should in the morning heading to work. I hate getting into the garage and having the wrong key for what I had decided on

Hate it when that happens... But oh... ya that is even less miles for me now a days on either because since Covid I've been working remote. I miss the drive into work.

[Invertalon]

Originally Posted by zaimer

...but can they? I would dare to say that it is the other way around. The newer cars are almost built worse than the old ones. You can find vehicles from many generations back, but it seems more rare to find decent 90's-90's vehicles. Chevy & Dodge in particular are notorious for rusting out...especially their trucks. Around the 5 year mark, you can find some seriously rusted trucks. For around region, I do believe the winter and lack of maintenance has much to do with it.

Cars utilize better materials and technology today to combat corrosion than they did in the past, no question. Certain automakers figured these materials out sooner than others. Throw in where the material is sourced, the Q/A on said raw material and the process in which the material is treated (coatings and paint). A lot goes into it, but overall, newer vehicles should go quite a bit longer than 20 years ago, apples-to-apples.

Keep in mind, people keep their car a lot longer today than they did years ago, too. So you may see more rust buckets driving around than 20 years ago, but it is not uncommon for people to drive their vehicles to 100,000 to 200,000+ miles anymore. My parents wouldn't trust a car growing up anywhere near 100,000. Today, if you can't reach 100K relatively maintenance free, something is wrong.


Here is just back to 2005 from IHS, in which ownership length in just the shown 10 years has increased a bit, from 2005 to 2015 where the combined ownership duration went up just over 2 years. Imagine what the difference would be if there was data back to say, 1990-1995 or so? (I couldn't find it).







Now in my own experience, my 2008 xB which I drove for 11 years and 150K miles had very minimal/light rust underneath. The engine bay looked fantastic. 10 years of salt, slush and all the other fun that goes along with a midwest winter here in the rust belt. Aside from a bit more work to break free some components on the suspension or brake system, no issue.

My girlfriends 2005 Mazda 3 when she still had it was far more prone to rust. It would even rust in weird areas, such as the back trunk lid around the emblem. It was clear Mazda had issues around this time, as anytime to see one from around that vintage you can find rust all over it... Wheel wells, the frame, trunk lid, etc...

My brother had a 2008 Pontiac G8 GT which never drove in the winter... It came from Florida and was parked all winter-long. The underneath of his car looked worse than my comparable xB which tackled many years of winter. It wasn't that bad, but surprising all things considered.



Even looking around car lots at 10-15 year old vehicles, many look great. You come across the rust buckets here and there, but for the most part, if you can get 10+ years out of a daily driver here in the Midwest, I'd say that's great.

And all modern cars having ABS front and rear bumpers combat rust as well, since well, they can't rust. So most of the rock damage from the hood itself down is typically non-issue on the front end. Aesthetics aside.

Maintenance/care go a long way as well, of course. Keeping the under body clean during winter (laser washes and whatnot), wiping down the engine bay.

I have more confidence in modern cars in terms of materials than in the past, for sure. You will still have those troublesome cars that had a string of faulty materials or whatever else, but in general, the cars today are safer, better built and much more capable to go the distance than in the past with far less upkeep/maintenance.

[Silent_H_]

Originally Posted by jamala00

that is because the owner doesn't care about the vehicle. If you care about a new vehicle and live in a state with winter and salt you need to be diligent about getting it washed and keeping it clean. If you do that it won't rust away in 5 years.

This almost certainly factors into it. During the winter I often go to the spray-it-yourself car washes so that I can hit the underside and keep the corrosive materials off as much as possible.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Nice...! I think you made a great choice

Agreed!

[RWT]

Originally Posted by zaimer

'05 Dodge Neon with 87K miles. I think its in good shape for what it is. New tires & battery. There are two rust spots on a fender I have to fix and the headlights need some refinishing, but that will give me something to tinker with.

That sounds just about perfect for a winter beater. Nicely done.



JMHO

[TP2SS]

Go with the beater!

I bought my SS as a toy. It’s never seen snow, and never been driven in rain. I doubt it’s ever been driven through a puddle! It’s 4 year old and has 3500 miles, and the underbody looks like it just rolled off the line, all the bar code tags on components are intact and look new too! I have a storage unit and swap my DD XT5 for the SS based on the day’s forecast, and the SS will go into the unit by the end of Oct until April. I take the insurance down to comp only for those months.

But yesterday I almost didn’t have an SS to put into the storage unit...ironically where I was taking it at the time! Sitting at a red with a pickup next to me in the left turn lane blocking my view left. Light turns green and because the intersection is somewhat angled and the pickup was crowding my lane, I started off slow to make sure I cleared him and the curb. As I always do, I look left as I start through the intersection and was clearing his front end, and some jacka$$ in a sedan is coming through from the left, I mean not even close to running a yellow, he had to have been red for seconds when he ran it. Jammed on the Brembos and luckily the SS is still intact! I thought for about a second about doing a hard right and jamming the gas to catch the jerk to flip him off, but ended up just moving on. If I had done my semi-usual “spirited” launch, he’d have broadsided me and the SS would be dead!

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by TP2SS

Go with the beater!

I bought my SS as a toy. It’s never seen snow, and never been driven in rain. I doubt it’s ever been driven through a puddle! It’s 4 year old and has 3500 miles, and the underbody looks like it just rolled off the line, all the bar code tags on components are intact and look new too! I have a storage unit and swap my DD XT5 for the SS based on the day’s forecast, and the SS will go into the unit by the end of Oct until April. I take the insurance down to comp only for those months.

You do the storage unit too hey? Man I sure wish I had a 3 car garage, but that just isn't in the cards unless I buy a new house. Storage unit is far cheaper.

[Staves]

beater for sure. would get zero joy driving a RWD V8 in crappy weather and crappy roads.

[TP2SS]

Originally Posted by jamala00

You do the storage unit too hey? Man I sure wish I had a 3 car garage, but that just isn't in the cards unless I buy a new house. Storage unit is far cheaper.

Me too. Built the house in 2005 but didn’t/couldn’t do a true three car. It’s technically a 3 car but only has a two car door, and the extra space is 1) filled with other crap, and 2) has a small step up in the concrete floor, so couldn’t put it on dollies and “Tetris” it anyway! $100/month for unit hurts a little but is easier in the end.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by RWT

That sounds just about perfect for a winter beater. Nicely done.



JMHO

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by Staves

beater for sure. would get zero joy driving a RWD V8 in crappy weather and crappy roads.

I would have a blast driving a RWD V8 in semi-slick roads IF I didn't really care about the car. My reasoning was more about keeping the Camaro pristine...not so much the actual driving part of winter.

[wwiiavfan]

Originally Posted by Invertalon

Cars utilize better materials and technology today to combat corrosion than they did in the past, no question. Certain automakers figured these materials out sooner than others. Throw in where the material is sourced, the Q/A on said raw material and the process in which the material is treated (coatings and paint). A lot goes into it, but overall, newer vehicles should go quite a bit longer than 20 years ago, apples-to-apples.

Keep in mind, people keep their car a lot longer today than they did years ago, too. So you may see more rust buckets driving around than 20 years ago, but it is not uncommon for people to drive their vehicles to 100,000 to 200,000+ miles anymore. My parents wouldn't trust a car growing up anywhere near 100,000. Today, if you can't reach 100K relatively maintenance free, something is wrong.


Here is just back to 2005 from IHS, in which ownership length in just the shown 10 years has increased a bit, from 2005 to 2015 where the combined ownership duration went up just over 2 years. Imagine what the difference would be if there was data back to say, 1990-1995 or so? (I couldn't find it).







Now in my own experience, my 2008 xB which I drove for 11 years and 150K miles had very minimal/light rust underneath. The engine bay looked fantastic. 10 years of salt, slush and all the other fun that goes along with a midwest winter here in the rust belt. Aside from a bit more work to break free some components on the suspension or brake system, no issue.

My girlfriends 2005 Mazda 3 when she still had it was far more prone to rust. It would even rust in weird areas, such as the back trunk lid around the emblem. It was clear Mazda had issues around this time, as anytime to see one from around that vintage you can find rust all over it... Wheel wells, the frame, trunk lid, etc...

My brother had a 2008 Pontiac G8 GT which never drove in the winter... It came from Florida and was parked all winter-long. The underneath of his car looked worse than my comparable xB which tackled many years of winter. It wasn't that bad, but surprising all things considered.



Even looking around car lots at 10-15 year old vehicles, many look great. You come across the rust buckets here and there, but for the most part, if you can get 10+ years out of a daily driver here in the Midwest, I'd say that's great.

And all modern cars having ABS front and rear bumpers combat rust as well, since well, they can't rust. So most of the rock damage from the hood itself down is typically non-issue on the front end. Aesthetics aside.

Maintenance/care go a long way as well, of course. Keeping the under body clean during winter (laser washes and whatnot), wiping down the engine bay.

I have more confidence in modern cars in terms of materials than in the past, for sure. You will still have those troublesome cars that had a string of faulty materials or whatever else, but in general, the cars today are safer, better built and much more capable to go the distance than in the past with far less upkeep/maintenance.

Show me a mid-‘00’s F150 that isn’t a rust bucket and that would be your unicorn. My 04’s frame rusted completely through; you could see through it. I had to buy a pre-fabbed frame rail section for each side and weld it in. I hate going underneath the truck for anything, as you get a face full of rust. Oh yeah the truck was in my garage every day of its life for the first 13 years.

[nancygrl]

Have a 08 awd Highlander for winter beater vehicle.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by wwiiavfan

Show me a mid-‘00’s F150 that isn’t a rust bucket and that would be your unicorn. My 04’s frame rusted completely through; you could see through it. I had to buy a pre-fabbed frame rail section for each side and weld it in. I hate going underneath the truck for anything, as you get a face full of rust. Oh yeah the truck was in my garage every day of its life for the first 13 years.

Just because people own them longer doesn’t mean they’re not rusted out hulks of crap.

Those numbers are also skewed by increased import sales as a function of market share. The reality is in my experience, if taken care of, brands like Toyota, Honda, etc are proven to be more reliable & corrosion resistant.

Look at not only your example, but ANY 99-08 Chevy truck up here & fenders & rocker panels are non existent, as in gone, huge gaping holes. Not to mention rusted out spring shackles, cab & box mounts.

There’s a reason southern vehicles bring more money up here.

Originally Posted by nancygrl

Have a 08 awd Highlander for winter beater vehicle.

How has your ‘08 been reliability wise? We have a ‘13 A4WD & a ‘19 Hybrid, iAWD. The ‘13 has only needed a new A/C line & a rear interior panel clip in 75K miles. Haven’t even needed the brakes done yet, but did replace the crappy OEM tires @ 20K with Nitto TerraGrappler A/T’s. The ‘19 of course being only a year old has been flawless.

On the rust front our ‘13 has only had a few rust spots on the fender lips & lift gate which remedied by some Meguires & touch-up paint.