[glenB]

Any pad transfer to the rotor?

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by Pollock

My wrench goes to 250. Why you ask.

Anyway baffled as to what happened.

Trying to work it through. You are using the correct tool for the torque range (vs 0-150 tq wrench)

I am going to guess that the wheel and mateface where not seated correctly when you torqued your lugs. The Wrench will indicate proper torque but the wheel is not seated properly, which led to preload failure. Make sure to clean the matefaces and take care to ensure the wheel is on square with the hub. The common "recheck torque in 50 miles" is basically to check for this.

Also make sure when you are getting close to tq spec you keep the nut moving to have your torque set using kinetic friction vs static(will increase error).


In the case your wheel was already afixed to your car previously and torqed checked fine in the AM. You may want to send send you torque wrench in for calibration(or find a local place) to make sure your tool is ok, ~10-$20.

[Pollock]

No pad transfer to the rotors that I am aware of and if there was I wouldn't know what it would look like.
I have not bedded my brakes. Being new to this I don't really know much about it to be honest. I watched a video about bedding at it seemed like it was for serious racers.

My torque wrench very well could be outta calibration as its roughly 15 plus years old. It's a craftsman.

Now one more question. Would a warped rotor become worse as it heated up to high temps. This happened toward the end of my 30 min session. And after thinking about it I was felt something similar on a way smaller scale toward them end of the previous 20 min session. But after that session I shrugged it off because I drove to town to buy gas and the car was fine.

Maybe it's not rotors at all just an improper seated wheel and loose lug nuts. But heat has something to do with it.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Pollock

No pad transfer to the rotors that I am aware of and if there was I wouldn't know what it would look like.
I have not bedded my brakes. Being new to this I don't really know much about it to be honest. I watched a video about bedding at it seemed like it was for serious racers.

My torque wrench very well could be outta calibration as its roughly 15 plus years old. It's a craftsman.

Now one more question. Would a warped rotor become worse as it heated up to high temps. This happened toward the end of my 30 min session. And after thinking about it I was felt something similar on a way smaller scale toward them end of the previous 20 min session. But after that session I shrugged it off because I drove to town to buy gas and the car was fine.

Maybe it's not rotors at all just an improper seated wheel and loose lug nuts. But heat has something to do with it.

the warped rotor myth thing is basically pad transfer. not sure if you knew, but reading the above replies on this page alone, the talk about both makes it seem as if they are two different things, but they aren't really. http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

the article above has some tips that should help ya, especially this lil nugget in making sure all is fine.

Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.

[Pollock]

That's a very interesting read. My rotors don't have spots or pad imprints. So your saying had I bedded in my brakes properly this would never happen. This was my 4th track day. Obviously I have gotten faster and more aggressive over time.

Edit: Or have I over exceeded the operating range of the factory pad. Probably a combo of both situations.

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by Pollock

That's a very interesting read. My rotors don't have spots or pad imprints. So your saying had I bedded in my brakes properly this would never happen. This was my 4th track day. Obviously I have gotten faster and more aggressive over time.

Edit: Or have I over exceeded the operating range of the factory pad. Probably a combo of both situations.

You haven’t exceeded the factory pads operating range, I guarantee that. I’ve run OE pads at Putnam and never ran into fade or any issue. I read your thread and immediately thought it sounded like you had a piece of rubber get caught in your wheel. I’ve had rubber pickup lodged in wheels and it makes a horrible vibration, then your brake calipers smoke from the rubber contact. To me- it didn’t sound like a truly loose wheel if not all lugs weren’t loose. Just my .02.

[TrackClub]

Id echo Provoste's comments and also suggest bedding in brakes is a must if you track your car regardless of pace level etc. It is not just for "serious racers" but applies for any track duty. And frankly helps even in dd imo.

[Ventura 1LE]

Originally Posted by Provoste

You haven’t exceeded the factory pads operating range, I guarantee that. I’ve run OE pads at Putnam and never ran into fade or any issue. I read your thread and immediately thought it sounded like you had a piece of rubber get caught in your wheel. I’ve had rubber pickup lodged in wheels and it makes a horrible vibration, then your brake calipers smoke from the rubber contact. To me- it didn’t sound like a truly loose wheel if not all lugs weren’t loose. Just my .02.

Agree with being a lose wheel. Plus these wheels seem to trap alot of rubber on the flats inside the rim surface and cause an out of balaance feel. I had that to happen feeling warpped rotors after 3rd session with rubber build up. I chased my tail for that and had the rotors turned and they were fine on the brake lathe very littile needed to be shaved. This was on a gen 5 with 2 years of tracking and 3 set of pads. So I doubt you warped the rotors unless your trail braking alot. So I would guess as mentioned rubber getting caught up in the caliper throwing smoke. You will know when you cooked the brakes by the very strong smell of overheating pads and will cook the red paint.Make sure you always bleed them as well before a track event it does help.A brake bleeder like MityVac is a good investment. They look ok from the pics.

Clean the rubber out as much as you can in between sessions on the rims once cooler and check torque. Give that a shot before buying rotors and pads.

Going back to the torque wrench 15 years old ... 5 to 150 lbs its at the upper range of it. They normally go out of spec at the upper range. Find or buy another one not knocking on craftsman but I work in the industry and everytime somone sends out craftsman to be calibrated it usually comes back failed and unable to adjust. Buy a 1/2 drive that can torque up to 250 lbs that is in the mid range. For a quick fix always double check for tightness with a stright drive handle or tire iron if you can trust your educated elbows. I have backed of lug nuts one at time and retighten to ensure its matted using a cross pattern of checking each one at a time.

[Kstallard34]

No such thing as “warped rotor.” Get a dial indicator or find someone with one and measure for lateral run out. I suggest finding a place that has a on car brake lathe if you need it a resurface.

[Pollock]

Originally Posted by Provoste

You haven’t exceeded the factory pads operating range, I guarantee that. I’ve run OE pads at Putnam and never ran into fade or any issue. I read your thread and immediately thought it sounded like you had a piece of rubber get caught in your wheel. I’ve had rubber pickup lodged in wheels and it makes a horrible vibration, then your brake calipers smoke from the rubber contact. To me- it didn’t sound like a truly loose wheel if not all lugs weren’t loose. Just my .02.

I believe this is what had to happen since all is well now.

[indyz]

A similar type of question. Hope it's not a hijack....

What if you feel the vibrations only at high speeds (say 80mph or above) ?

I bought mine used and performed the 60-10mph bedding procedure. I never get vibrations at 50mph or less in town, but do feel them at highway speeds (only on braking).

[Ventura 1LE]

Originally Posted by Kstallard34

No such thing as “warped rotor.” Get a dial indicator or find someone with one and measure for lateral run out. I suggest finding a place that has a on car brake lathe if you need it a resurface.

Your right a dial indicator or local brake shop to do the lateral run out. As far as being warped then yes I stand corrected in those terms. But in shop talk we know what the other guy is saying.. Rotors are made to withstand heat brake temps and wont warp. Most vibration is uneven wear .. or hub to wheel matting... or not being torqued properly.

Not to mention loose or worn wheel bearings... After that... it could be the tire itself... flat spotting etc... Hell it could be a damaged wheel assy...

Wew you could have the tire shop to road force balance the tire wheel assy as well.

Keep it simple and elimate as much as you can before going through any costs of rotors .. wheels.. tires. and brake pads.

A good brake and tire shop can troubleshoot. if the vibration is noticed through braking in pedal or at highway speed with no brakes applied. Just find a good shop that dont sell the kitchen sink.. if you're not wanting to DIY...eliminating the simple things first is all I am saying.

If you,re tracking just doing basic maintenance can save costs and I think most people can and willing to do that. Post their tips and experience levels.

[Ventura 1LE]

Road force balancing tires can help when troubleshhoting and all togther things are eliminated. Tires have heavy spots in them and the wheel itself. If you noticed some tires will have a red dot indicating heavy spot and yellow spot is the lightest. Red dot 180 out from the valve stem or yellow dot to the valve stem. https://youtu.be/VTJOnxRyg3k

[mjk3888]

This is the link to the ticking fix.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502195