[TarponTime]

I would very much welcome pointers! There are so many mistakes in those runs I do see, and probably lots of mistakes I don't even see.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by TarponTime

I would very much welcome pointers! There are so many mistakes in those runs I do see, and probably lots of mistakes I don't even see.

Well instead of mistakes consider it more of a learning curve. Like the DNF in the first video, its really easy to get lost on those courses because of how we normally drive in traffic, everyone does it in the beginning.

First thing first, get that car into second gear and leave it there. You have tons of power and could probably even start in second if you wanted to. (don't do that) At the Daytona event leaving it in first gear you redlined on that short stretch at about 55 mph. I don't think you would have been able to go much faster in that section before hitting the braking zone, but keeping the car in first gear in those tight courses almost forces you to overdrive the car. The rear end will want to step out with even the slightest throttle application, and because you're just getting used to the car and to Autocross it's really easy to over do it. Which leads to the second point, avoid heavy throttle during large steering inputs, especially quick or sharp stabs at the throttle, that is just going to get you sideways. There are times when you want to mash the throttle, but when coming out of turns gently roll into the throttle to avoid oversteer when you don't intend it.

Practice (in a safe manner) your launches. You seemed to bog some on launch in a few of those videos and while it won't necessarily make or break you in an autocross especially depending on how your region starts timing it's something where you shouldn't be giving up any time to your competition. Also power through the timing lights at the finish. They didn't have a large shut down area at some of those events but you can hit the brakes hard AFTER you go through the timing lights at full throttle. Our region usually has a minimum 200ft shutdown area after the finish, and if your region is not allowing enough room to get the car stopped safely after going through the finish you need to speak to your safety steward about that.

Eliminate distractions as much as possible while driving. I noticed that you had the radio on in the last video to hear the announcers, but as you got to the end of the course away from their transmitter it started to pick up a regular radio station. That can be distracting, especially if you are listening to how the guy in front of you did because you are trying to beat his time. Worry about that after, concentrate on your lap, and work on looking ahead.

When you DNF'ed (missed the lane change element on the way back) on the first run in the first video you seemed to give up and coast the rest of the way back, don't do that! Sometimes it's hard to put mistakes behind you during a run and it can distract you, but treat the rest of the course like you never made a mistake. You lost the opportunity to run the remainder of the course at speed and get some extra practice on those elements. My last event had a Chicago Box where I kept hitting a cone on the exit from it because I was trying to take the element just a bit too fast, but I finished the course as if nothing had happened so that I could practice the rest of the elements for when I got a clean run. I hit that same damn cone 3 times in a row, but on my 4th run everything went clean and I finished strong because I just kept going at 100% even after the mistake. This is also is part of eliminating distractions, both enviromental like the radio, and mental like hitting a cone or missing an element. I know some of the guys I run with will adjust their rear view mirror sideways and their side view mirrors up against the vehicle so they won't be tempted to look in them when driving to see if they hit a cone.

Another thing I noticed is that you keep switching your TC/PTM mode both from event to event and during events. Don't do that, it's like getting into a different car each time because it is altering the car's responses to your inputs. My suggestion is to leave it all off if possible or turn it to the least invasive setting. The reason being is you can learn bad habits if you are relying on the car to save you from bad choices. If you are mashing the throttle in a turn but the car is reducing the throttle electronically to keep you from spinning out you will begin to think that it's ok to mash the throttle in a turn.

It's too bad you don't live closer to the Central Carolinas Region we have 2 fantastic venues with large areas that allow cars like ours to stretch their legs a bit more. We typically have run times of 60-70 seconds without having to backtrack over the same area. If you ever feel like driving 7 hours to an autocross event let me know.

I will try and upload the videos of the cone hits at Blacklake and my final clean run if you want, or even some of the other runs at zMax so you can see what a course looks like that is more friendly to larger higher HP cars.

[Infern0]

Originally Posted by Egon

Well instead of mistakes consider it more of a learning curve. Like the DNF in the first video, its really easy to get lost on those courses because of how we normally drive in traffic, everyone does it in the beginning.

First thing first, get that car into second gear and leave it there. You have tons of power and could probably even start in second if you wanted to. (don't do that) At the Daytona event leaving it in first gear you redlined on that short stretch at about 55 mph. I don't think you would have been able to go much faster in that section before hitting the braking zone, but keeping the car in first gear in those tight courses almost forces you to overdrive the car. The rear end will want to step out with even the slightest throttle application, and because you're just getting used to the car and to Autocross it's really easy to over do it. Which leads to the second point, avoid heavy throttle during large steering inputs, especially quick or sharp stabs at the throttle, that is just going to get you sideways. There are times when you want to mash the throttle, but when coming out of turns gently roll into the throttle to avoid oversteer when you don't intend it.

Practice (in a safe manner) your launches. You seemed to bog some on launch in a few of those videos and while it won't necessarily make or break you in an autocross especially depending on how your region starts timing it's something where you shouldn't be giving up any time to your competition. Also power through the timing lights at the finish. They didn't have a large shut down area at some of those events but you can hit the brakes hard AFTER you go through the timing lights at full throttle. Our region usually has a minimum 200ft shutdown area after the finish, and if your region is not allowing enough room to get the car stopped safely after going through the finish you need to speak to your safety steward about that.

Eliminate distractions as much as possible while driving. I noticed that you had the radio on in the last video to hear the announcers, but as you got to the end of the course away from their transmitter it started to pick up a regular radio station. That can be distracting, especially if you are listening to how the guy in front of you did because you are trying to beat his time. Worry about that after, concentrate on your lap, and work on looking ahead.

When you DNF'ed (missed the lane change element on the way back) on the first run in the first video you seemed to give up and coast the rest of the way back, don't do that! Sometimes it's hard to put mistakes behind you during a run and it can distract you, but treat the rest of the course like you never made a mistake. You lost the opportunity to run the remainder of the course at speed and get some extra practice on those elements. My last event had a Chicago Box where I kept hitting a cone on the exit from it because I was trying to take the element just a bit too fast, but I finished the course as if nothing had happened so that I could practice the rest of the elements for when I got a clean run. I hit that same damn cone 3 times in a row, but on my 4th run everything went clean and I finished strong because I just kept going at 100% even after the mistake. This is also is part of eliminating distractions, both enviromental like the radio, and mental like hitting a cone or missing an element. I know some of the guys I run with will adjust their rear view mirror sideways and their side view mirrors up against the vehicle so they won't be tempted to look in them when driving to see if they hit a cone.

Another thing I noticed is that you keep switching your TC/PTM mode both from event to event and during events. Don't do that, it's like getting into a different car each time because it is altering the car's responses to your inputs. My suggestion is to leave it all off if possible or turn it to the least invasive setting. The reason being is you can learn bad habits if you are relying on the car to save you from bad choices. If you are mashing the throttle in a turn but the car is reducing the throttle electronically to keep you from spinning out you will begin to think that it's ok to mash the throttle in a turn.

It's too bad you don't live closer to the Central Carolinas Region we have 2 fantastic venues with large areas that allow cars like ours to stretch their legs a bit more. We typically have run times of 60-70 seconds without having to backtrack over the same area. If you ever feel like driving 7 hours to an autocross event let me know.

I will try and upload the videos of the cone hits at Blacklake and my final clean run if you want, or even some of the other runs at zMax so you can see what a course looks like that is more friendly to larger higher HP cars.

[TarponTime]

Man, I can't say thank you enough Egon! Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together! I'd love to head up to the Central Carolinas region at some point, I'll keep you posted and hopefully you will be able to see your advice being taken in the next videos.

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by TarponTime

Been putting my ZL1 to work! After the last event this last weekend, I finally feel like I'm getting to know the car a little bit better. Still just scratching the surface though!

First Event, Valkaria, car hit 1500 miles on the way to the event:




The second event was on the kart track at Daytona, still learning:



Event this last weekend and finally feeling like I'm getting a better handle on what this car can do:

Nice going! You got faster with every pass. Autocross is a great way to find your car's limits. Lessons learned on Auto-X course can translate to road tracks too.

I gotta get mine back out there. I got a little gun-shy after putting some marks in my paint last time.

Thanks for posting the videos. Cheers!

--Cal

[Egon]

Originally Posted by TarponTime

Man, I can't say thank you enough Egon! Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together! I'd love to head up to the Central Carolinas region at some point, I'll keep you posted and hopefully you will be able to see your advice being taken in the next videos.

Glad to do it, hope you find some of the advice useful. That PDR is just so damn useful with the overlay, I wish I had something similar for my 5th Gen.

I went ahead and finally put together the videos of my last 2 events with CCR. At Blacklake (Michelin Proving Grounds) I didn't get my first run so the video starts with run 2. The starter didn't see the course worker run out at the start and that's why I started and stopped right away. Our timing doesn't start for about 40ft from the start line so hard starts are not necessary but you don't want to go slow either. On my 2nd run (first run in the video) my biggest mistake other than hitting the cone in the Chicago box was my entry into the final slalom. I came in too hot and went way wide. (57 second mark) I almost hit the first cone in the slalom as a result and was behind and was not able to carry as much speed through to the finish. However because I kept going even after I hit the cone I was able to realize that slalom entry was an issue and correct it in later runs. On my 3rd run (2nd in video) my biggest mistake was trying to take the turn around at the 1:30 second mark too fast and I went wide costing me some time. I still hit that damn cone but improved my slalom entry at the finish, it still wasn't perfect, but it was much better than on my 2nd run. On my 4th run (3rd in the video) I was finally able to put all of those pieces together, the early turn around was tight and fast, I didn't hit the cone in the Chicago Box, and my slalom entry was much better allowing me to carry good speed all the way through. Good enough for first place in F-Street by 0.668 seconds.



The second video of the Unofficial NC tour I just have my fastest runs saved from each day. Day 1, the first section from the 25 second mark to the 33 second mark was astonishingly fast with a couple seconds of flat out and at the end I was going about 65 mph. I would have been bouncing off the rev limiter for sure if I left it in 1st gear. The Miata and lower HP guys had to shift to 3rd for that section, so we have a big advantage with the gearing and power in the 5th and 6th Gens, make sure you use it. The "S's" section starting at the 45 second mark was also very fast probably about the same speed as the slalom at the start. I did have to lift a few times through there to get around some of the cones but it was really fast. Coming out of the slalom at the 1:06 mark I did not brake hard enough for that transition and it cost me some time, but I think everyone was having trouble with that. Day 2 was in the rain and it was a lot of fun, but very challenging. Sharp throttle or steering inputs would earn you an instant spin out, you have to do everything very very smooth to get through the course quickly without issues. On my first run that day I (not in the video) I had the car fishtailing pretty badly before the finish slalom, I caught it but it was a warning to me that I wasn't going to get away with anything that day. I don't have a data overlay, but if you listen carefully you can hear that I never really gave heavy throttle until the car was almost perfectly straight, and light steady throttle in any turning situation. At the very end, the 2:45 mark just before the finish I try to hustle through the finish and the car starts to get sideways but I was able to keep it straight. I can't tell you how many people spun out at the finish there that day. Everyone seems to hate running in the rain, but you will learn how to drive smooth and that will definitely help your driving in the dry.

[1970judge]

Originally Posted by TarponTime

Thanks! I might have to start watching what I am saying if I'm going to be posting more vids. Didn't realize how negative I sound when I'm actually having fun.

No way man, I could definitely tell! :flub: "Shit!" Made me laugh! Good runs dude, look forward to more!

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by Egon

Well instead of mistakes consider it more of a learning curve. Like the DNF in the first video, its really easy to get lost on those courses because of how we normally drive in traffic, everyone does it in the beginning.

[snip]

It's too bad you don't live closer to the Central Carolinas Region we have 2 fantastic venues with large areas that allow cars like ours to stretch their legs a bit more. We typically have run times of 60-70 seconds without having to backtrack over the same area. If you ever feel like driving 7 hours to an autocross event let me know.

I will try and upload the videos of the cone hits at Blacklake and my final clean run if you want, or even some of the other runs at zMax so you can see what a course looks like that is more friendly to larger higher HP cars.

Great advice! We need more like this on the Camaro forums. I'd also encourage drivers to attend the Novice Schools when offered, usually the day before events. It's bargain to get one-on-one instruction and a great way to get used to the venue and your car. It also makes for safer, more attentive drivers on the road.

I'm a member in SCCA NCR. Cape Fear chapter schedules events at the Cherry Point Marine base near where I live. It a great venue where they can setup challenging courses on a large, unused runway. I'd love to see more open courses better suited to our heavy, powerful cars. You say you're in Central Carolinas Region... It might be worth a trip if you've got bigger venues than some of the parking lots near Wilmington. NCR has another event (with school) on July 22/23 at the Cherry Point MCAS but nothing 'til then and not much after.

--Cal

[Egon]

Originally Posted by 1970judge

No way man, I could definitely tell! :flub: "Shit!" Made me laugh! Good runs dude, look forward to more!

I have at least one F-bomb and some other choice words in the Blacklake video. It's going to happen no matter what so you might as well have fun with it. The key is to keep on going like nothing happened.

Originally Posted by cwebster

Great advice! We need more like this on the Camaro forums. I'd also encourage drivers to attend the Novice Schools when offered, usually the day before events. It's bargain to get one-on-one instruction and a great way to get used to the venue and your car. It also makes for safer, more attentive drivers on the road.

I'm a member in SCCA NCR. Cape Fear chapter schedules events at the Cherry Point Marine base near where I live. It a great venue where they can setup challenging courses on a large, unused runway. I'd love to see more open courses better suited to our heavy, powerful cars. You say you're in Central Carolinas Region... It might be worth a trip if you've got bigger venues than some of the parking lots near Wilmington. NCR has another event (with school) on July 22/23 at the Cherry Point MCAS but nothing 'til then and not much after.

--Cal

I enjoy helping when I can, and that PDR makes it so easy to see what is going on any any moment during someone's run. An incredible diagnostic tool. Central Carolinas Region has a novice school at Michelin Proving Grounds in Laurens SC this Saturday and an Autocross on Sunday. Entry to the novice school includes the autocross the following day. I will be doing timing on Saturday during the novice school and some course worker instruction, and maybe they will let me take a few cracks at the novice course for fun. The novice school is already full, but we still have room for the Autocross on Sunday. I posted the event details in the Southeast Region forum here. http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495260

I want to start going to events in other regions, but money is tight right now and I either need another set of tires to keep miles off of my autocross tires or a trailer and tow vehicle, both of which are too expensive for the time being. I think I could probably co drive with some friends if they are going, I will have to look into that next time they plan on going out of town.

[TarponTime]

Originally Posted by Egon

Glad to do it, hope you find some of the advice useful. That PDR is just so damn useful with the overlay, I wish I had something similar for my 5th Gen.

I went ahead and finally put together the videos of my last 2 events with CCR. At Blacklake (Michelin Proving Grounds) I didn't get my first run so the video starts with run 2. The starter didn't see the course worker run out at the start and that's why I started and stopped right away. Our timing doesn't start for about 40ft from the start line so hard starts are not necessary but you don't want to go slow either. On my 2nd run (first run in the video) my biggest mistake other than hitting the cone in the Chicago box was my entry into the final slalom. I came in too hot and went way wide. (57 second mark) I almost hit the first cone in the slalom as a result and was behind and was not able to carry as much speed through to the finish. However because I kept going even after I hit the cone I was able to realize that slalom entry was an issue and correct it in later runs. On my 3rd run (2nd in video) my biggest mistake was trying to take the turn around at the 1:30 second mark too fast and I went wide costing me some time. I still hit that damn cone but improved my slalom entry at the finish, it still wasn't perfect, but it was much better than on my 2nd run. On my 4th run (3rd in the video) I was finally able to put all of those pieces together, the early turn around was tight and fast, I didn't hit the cone in the Chicago Box, and my slalom entry was much better allowing me to carry good speed all the way through. Good enough for first place in F-Street by 0.668 seconds.



The second video of the Unofficial NC tour I just have my fastest runs saved from each day. Day 1, the first section from the 25 second mark to the 33 second mark was astonishingly fast with a couple seconds of flat out and at the end I was going about 65 mph. I would have been bouncing off the rev limiter for sure if I left it in 1st gear. The Miata and lower HP guys had to shift to 3rd for that section, so we have a big advantage with the gearing and power in the 5th and 6th Gens, make sure you use it. The "S's" section starting at the 45 second mark was also very fast probably about the same speed as the slalom at the start. I did have to lift a few times through there to get around some of the cones but it was really fast. Coming out of the slalom at the 1:06 mark I did not brake hard enough for that transition and it cost me some time, but I think everyone was having trouble with that. Day 2 was in the rain and it was a lot of fun, but very challenging. Sharp throttle or steering inputs would earn you an instant spin out, you have to do everything very very smooth to get through the course quickly without issues. On my first run that day I (not in the video) I had the car fishtailing pretty badly before the finish slalom, I caught it but it was a warning to me that I wasn't going to get away with anything that day. I don't have a data overlay, but if you listen carefully you can hear that I never really gave heavy throttle until the car was almost perfectly straight, and light steady throttle in any turning situation. At the very end, the 2:45 mark just before the finish I try to hustle through the finish and the car starts to get sideways but I was able to keep it straight. I can't tell you how many people spun out at the finish there that day. Everyone seems to hate running in the rain, but you will learn how to drive smooth and that will definitely help your driving in the dry.

Great runs! I loved the progression of the blacklake video, that last run was so smooth. Its nice when everything comes together!

Do you review the video between runs? That to me is the best part of the PDR, I can watch the video 4-5 times between each run and I am finding it really helps from one run to another. Hoping I can start to see everything that you are able to pick out of them, getting a little better at that from watching more runs.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by TarponTime

Great runs! I loved the progression of the blacklake video, that last run was so smooth. Its nice when everything comes together!

Do you review the video between runs? That to me is the best part of the PDR, I can watch the video 4-5 times between each run and I am finding it really helps from one run to another. Hoping I can start to see everything that you are able to pick out of them, getting a little better at that from watching more runs.

I don't really have the option to review the video between runs since I am using a gopro not a PDR. I am reasonably good about being able to go over my runs mentally, or at the very least recognizing my mistakes and correcting for them on the following run. I do several course walks beforehand and talk with friends about how to approach each element which helps a lot.

Do they have novice walks at your events? If so make sure you go on them and be sure to ask questions. If they don't see if you can find some of the more experienced drivers and ask them if it would be ok for you to tag along and ask questions, most people are extremely friendly at these events and willing to help you. In my home region, CCR we have a really great novice program and we provide novice instructors for anyone who signs up as a novice at any of our events. (It didn't seem like there was anyone in the car with you on your runs so I am guessing not) If they don't ask around and see if anyone would be willing to ride with you and coach you. Especially any of the faster guys, or anyone that has been doing it for along time.

[TarponTime]

Originally Posted by Egon

I don't really have the option to review the video between runs since I am using a gopro not a PDR. I am reasonably good about being able to go over my runs mentally, or at the very least recognizing my mistakes and correcting for them on the following run. I do several course walks beforehand and talk with friends about how to approach each element which helps a lot.

Do they have novice walks at your events? If so make sure you go on them and be sure to ask questions. If they don't see if you can find some of the more experienced drivers and ask them if it would be ok for you to tag along and ask questions, most people are extremely friendly at these events and willing to help you. In my home region, CCR we have a really great novice program and we provide novice instructors for anyone who signs up as a novice at any of our events. (It didn't seem like there was anyone in the car with you on your runs so I am guessing not) If they don't ask around and see if anyone would be willing to ride with you and coach you. Especially any of the faster guys, or anyone that has been doing it for along time.

We do have a novice walk though/ ride along, but I am just picking this up again from when I used to go to a few events 4-5 years ago in my 2000 SS, so that means right to A Street. I have made a few friends that we walk the course before hand, and it does help. We also can do ride alongs on none points days, Daytona was a 2 day event with a practice on the first day. I just wasn't able to make both days.

I feel like things were coming together on my last Deland run, hoping to build off of that with more seat time. There is a track night in America coming up at Sebring on the 17th, and they have a great novice program.

[Infern0]

Originally Posted by Egon

Glad to do it, hope you find some of the advice useful. That PDR is just so damn useful with the overlay, I wish I had something similar for my 5th Gen.

Check this out. I hadn't seen it before this post earlier in the year. If I had, I may have opted for this over the factory PDR.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...79&postcount=9

[Infern0]

Originally Posted by Egon

Glad to do it, hope you find some of the advice useful. That PDR is just so damn useful with the overlay, I wish I had something similar for my 5th Gen.

I went ahead and finally put together the videos of my last 2 events with CCR. At Blacklake (Michelin Proving Grounds) I didn't get my first run so the video starts with run 2. The starter didn't see the course worker run out at the start and that's why I started and stopped right away. Our timing doesn't start for about 40ft from the start line so hard starts are not necessary but you don't want to go slow either. On my 2nd run (first run in the video) my biggest mistake other than hitting the cone in the Chicago box was my entry into the final slalom. I came in too hot and went way wide. (57 second mark) I almost hit the first cone in the slalom as a result and was behind and was not able to carry as much speed through to the finish. However because I kept going even after I hit the cone I was able to realize that slalom entry was an issue and correct it in later runs. On my 3rd run (2nd in video) my biggest mistake was trying to take the turn around at the 1:30 second mark too fast and I went wide costing me some time. I still hit that damn cone but improved my slalom entry at the finish, it still wasn't perfect, but it was much better than on my 2nd run. On my 4th run (3rd in the video) I was finally able to put all of those pieces together, the early turn around was tight and fast, I didn't hit the cone in the Chicago Box, and my slalom entry was much better allowing me to carry good speed all the way through. Good enough for first place in F-Street by 0.668 seconds.



The second video of the Unofficial NC tour I just have my fastest runs saved from each day. Day 1, the first section from the 25 second mark to the 33 second mark was astonishingly fast with a couple seconds of flat out and at the end I was going about 65 mph. I would have been bouncing off the rev limiter for sure if I left it in 1st gear. The Miata and lower HP guys had to shift to 3rd for that section, so we have a big advantage with the gearing and power in the 5th and 6th Gens, make sure you use it. The "S's" section starting at the 45 second mark was also very fast probably about the same speed as the slalom at the start. I did have to lift a few times through there to get around some of the cones but it was really fast. Coming out of the slalom at the 1:06 mark I did not brake hard enough for that transition and it cost me some time, but I think everyone was having trouble with that. Day 2 was in the rain and it was a lot of fun, but very challenging. Sharp throttle or steering inputs would earn you an instant spin out, you have to do everything very very smooth to get through the course quickly without issues. On my first run that day I (not in the video) I had the car fishtailing pretty badly before the finish slalom, I caught it but it was a warning to me that I wasn't going to get away with anything that day. I don't have a data overlay, but if you listen carefully you can hear that I never really gave heavy throttle until the car was almost perfectly straight, and light steady throttle in any turning situation. At the very end, the 2:45 mark just before the finish I try to hustle through the finish and the car starts to get sideways but I was able to keep it straight. I can't tell you how many people spun out at the finish there that day. Everyone seems to hate running in the rain, but you will learn how to drive smooth and that will definitely help your driving in the dry.

Awesome runs! I love that those course really allowed you to stretch it out a bit. In cabin color commentary is always hilarious to me. I'm 100x worse so I guess it makes me feel better.