[RamAir02]

Completed my fifth overall HPDE event this weekend at Watkins Glen. It was my fourth time there -- the only other track I've driven has been NJMP Thunderbolt.

I started my journey in HPDE last year. My first event in May 2021 yielded a best lap time of 2:14. I was able to get that down to a 2.11 for my event in May 2022.

This past weekend things really clicked for me and I was able to muster a personal best of 2:06.54. I attribute a lot of the improvement to having a great instructor, but also to introducing / learning trail braking this past weekend. It goes hand-in-hand with trail braking, but I've also been trying to carry more momentum through the corners, brake less and coast very little -- brake through early part of corner, off brake, right back on the gas and modulate as necessary through the corner, then smoothly getting back to full throttle at the apex.

After putting in several 2:09s, 2:08s and then getting a couple of laps into the 2:07s, I put together this 2:06 in my last session of the weekend. Thought I missed the 3-4 shift coming up the Esses, so I got out of the throttle for a split second, but otherwise it felt like a great lap and pushed the limits of what I'm capable of given my limited experience. Still trying to work up the confidence to be flat out through the entire Esses.

First Lap in the 2:07s - 2:07.98 (Came in a bit hot to Turn 11 and lost some time)


Good Lap w/ a little bit of traffic - 2:07.40


Best Lap - 2:06.54


Here is a playlist with some of the full sessions from the weekend if anyone is interested

Suggestions on where I can continue to shave off time & improve are welcome!

[GMteSSted]

I am glad to see these laps!
I'm driving the glen for my first time this coming week.

[Kmeleon]

Having not been to WG yet (although I've turned 1000'# of laps on my iracing simulator) I can not give you track advice but I can tell you one thing I see is you're in PTM Sport 1.... When you're comfortable enough move to Sport 2 at minimum because it will help the car rotate as the nannies really restrict you by working the brakes etc in the corners to keep the car straight. Sport 1 will make it feel like the car is understeering.... but it's not, it's the computer fighting you from going faster.

[RamAir02]

Originally Posted by Kmeleon

Having not been to WG yet (although I've turned 1000'# of laps on my iracing simulator) I can not give you track advice but I can tell you one thing I see is you're in PTM Sport 1.... When you're comfortable enough move to Sport 2 at minimum because it will help the car rotate as the nannies really restrict you by working the brakes etc in the corners to keep the car straight. Sport 1 will make it feel like the car is understeering.... but it's not, it's the computer fighting you from going faster.

Absolutely! I will work my way up to Sport 2 & Race PTM modes as I progress. I may try Sport 2 at my next event. I can definitely feel the nannies holding me back at times, but they've also probably saved me from a spin or two. While I feel I've been progressing well, I am still pretty new to this and would prefer not to fudge up my car

[Kmeleon]

Originally Posted by RamAir02

Absolutely! I will work my way up to Sport 2 & Race PTM modes as I progress. I may try Sport 2 at my next event. I can definitely feel the nannies holding me back at times, but they've also probably saved me from a spin or two. While I feel I've been progressing well, I am still pretty new to this and would prefer not to fudge up my car

100% agree, if you are not completely comfortable with the car absolutely stay at Sport 1. But I think you'll find that Sport 2 still provides a safety net, it's just a little smaller in size

[N Camarolina]

I am in my second year of HPDE and currently in advanced-intermediate level (B group) and can share a few learnings and suggestions to you:

1) Don't drive with quicker lap times as your goal, but rather good execution of skills and smooth inputs
- This recommendation comes from one of my instructors, as he observed that I have a tendency to try to improve my times. "Focus on the skills and execution, and the lap times will naturally improve," is what he tells me. So I say, "yes Zen Master."

2) Roll more slowly onto the throttle when exiting corners.
-Your video shows you are tripping the PTM on most of your corner exits (the symbol pops up in the PDR playback). While this will work fine driving the Camaro because the PTM will retard excessive engine torque and keep the rear end behind you (you push the gas pedal too much, but computer does not grant full torque request because it predicts the rear wheels will spin), it leads to the development of bad habits. Then, you track some other high HP car without PTM software and will quickly find that you are inducing spins on corner exit.

I suggest here your goal should be learn how to roll onto the throttle at a rate that is just less than the amount that invokes PTM to activate.

3) Analyze your PDR lap data with PI toolbox (it's free), and look for instances where the stability control system is activating
- This will help you understand whether stability control is currently saving your ass without you knowing it (most likely on corner entry in more agressive trail-braking situations, but also possible going over on hill crests on curves).
- My goal when driving is to be as aggressive as I can while still being smooth and NOT having stability control activate to save a spin. If it activates, your yaw rate is likely too high and would have required counter-steering to cancel the rotation. It doesn't happen frequently to me, but when it does it's usually because I've been too aggressive on trail breaking or come-off the last part of the pedal a little too quickly.

4) Don't move beyond PTM Sport 1 until you are ready to catch the rear end when it comes out.
- You will probably find that as you ramp up your trail-breaking aggressiveness and corner speed entry, yaw rates will increase and the rear end will become less stable. Going beyond Sport 1 turns off stability control, which means you need to build up some skills in being able to catch the rear end should the inevitable happen. My first foray into PTM Race resulted in me losing the rear end at 90mph and the attempted counter-steer save was not entirely successful. You can build these skills most safely on the skid pad exercise offered at some of the HPDE events (turn all nanies off). You can also get this practice on slower, safer (plenty of run-off area) corners while driving on track in Sport 2, but be sure no one is behind you when doing so, and make sure to be conservative on all other corners until you are confident in your ability to catch the rear.
- For more learning on catching the rear end the right way, Randy Pobst has a good YouTube video on the CPR principle


Good luck to you!

[Checkmate1]

Thanks for sharing. The Glen is a magical place.

Mind sharing your alignment settings? I am always taking notes about what works and what doesn't with our cars.

[RamAir02]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

Thanks for sharing. The Glen is a magical place.

Mind sharing your alignment settings? I am always taking notes about what works and what doesn't with our cars.

Sure. Went with factory recommended track alignment.

[RamAir02]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I am in my second year of HPDE and currently in advanced-intermediate level (B group) and can share a few learnings and suggestions to you:

1) Don't drive with quicker lap times as your goal, but rather good execution of skills and smooth inputs
- This recommendation comes from one of my instructors, as he observed that I have a tendency to try to improve my times. "Focus on the skills and execution, and the lap times will naturally improve," is what he tells me. So I say, "yes Zen Master."

2) Roll more slowly onto the throttle when exiting corners.
-Your video shows you are tripping the PTM on most of your corner exits (the symbol pops up in the PDR playback). While this will work fine driving the Camaro because the PTM will retard excessive engine torque and keep the rear end behind you (you push the gas pedal too much, but computer does not grant full torque request because it predicts the rear wheels will spin), it leads to the development of bad habits. Then, you track some other high HP car without PTM software and will quickly find that you are inducing spins on corner exit.

I suggest here your goal should be learn how to roll onto the throttle at a rate that is just less than the amount that invokes PTM to activate.

3) Analyze your PDR lap data with PI toolbox (it's free), and look for instances where the stability control system is activating
- This will help you understand whether stability control is currently saving your ass without you knowing it (most likely on corner entry in more agressive trail-braking situations, but also possible going over on hill crests on curves).
- My goal when driving is to be as aggressive as I can while still being smooth and NOT having stability control activate to save a spin. If it activates, your yaw rate is likely too high and would have required counter-steering to cancel the rotation. It doesn't happen frequently to me, but when it does it's usually because I've been too aggressive on trail breaking or come-off the last part of the pedal a little too quickly.

4) Don't move beyond PTM Sport 1 until you are ready to catch the rear end when it comes out.
- You will probably find that as you ramp up your trail-breaking aggressiveness and corner speed entry, yaw rates will increase and the rear end will become less stable. Going beyond Sport 1 turns off stability control, which means you need to build up some skills in being able to catch the rear end should the inevitable happen. My first foray into PTM Race resulted in me losing the rear end at 90mph and the attempted counter-steer save was not entirely successful. You can build these skills most safely on the skid pad exercise offered at some of the HPDE events (turn all nanies off). You can also get this practice on slower, safer (plenty of run-off area) corners while driving on track in Sport 2, but be sure no one is behind you when doing so, and make sure to be conservative on all other corners until you are confident in your ability to catch the rear.
- For more learning on catching the rear end the right way, Randy Pobst has a good YouTube video on the CPR principle


Good luck to you!

Thanks for the notes!

1) While I'm not chasing lap times, I do like seeing the progress in dropping times. I don't check them throughout the weekend -- I only pull the PDR data after the weekend.

2) Yes, I'm relying on the nannies a bit. I'll work on this!

3) I have been using Pi Toolbox and HiPoDriver's videos have been instrumental in getting my head around that software. Screenshot attached of PTM kicking in.

4) Sounds like your second point goes hand-in-hand with progressing to Sport 2. I'll keep this in mind.

Thanks again.

[N Camarolina]

Glad you're already using PI toolbox - your graph selections show you know how to use the software better than me!

Looks like most of your stability control "active" episodes are happening under acceleration, after PTM has tried (and failed) to limit your torque enough to keep the rear end planted. That means you are using considerable excess throttle on corner exits so I'd spend time working on that before going to Sport 2 or Race. Pay attention to what you feel and the track the car is taking as you roll onto the throttle and you'll start to be able to identify small understeer situations where you can back off throttle slightly to correct, or instead ask for less steering. Oversteer on corner exit will be much less likely, as you'll be adding throttle progressively as you "open" the steering wheel.

But there was also 1 stability control intervention under breaking (2nd blue spike at the bottom of your graphs), which would have started a spin. So yep, learn to get those under control as well before you go to Sport 2 or Race.

I'm an analytical guy, so I love having the PDR data to dissect to see where I am making mistakes and learn from it.

[RamAir02]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Glad you're already using PI toolbox - your graph selections show you know how to use the software better than me!

Looks like most of your stability control "active" episodes are happening under acceleration, after PTM has tried (and failed) to limit your torque enough to keep the rear end planted. That means you are using considerable excess throttle on corner exits so I'd spend time working on that before going to Sport 2 or Race. Pay attention to what you feel and the track the car is taking as you roll onto the throttle and you'll start to be able to identify small understeer situations where you can back off throttle slightly to correct, or instead ask for less steering. Oversteer on corner exit will be much less likely, as you'll be adding throttle progressively as you "open" the steering wheel.

But there was also 1 stability control intervention under breaking (2nd blue spike at the bottom of your graphs), which would have started a spin. So yep, learn to get those under control as well before you go to Sport 2 or Race.

I'm an analytical guy, so I love having the PDR data to dissect to see where I am making mistakes and learn from it.

Perhaps interesting -- That second blue line where the ASM kicked in was going into the bus stop. I think ASM kicked in from the car being unsettled on the curbing going in.

That said, you're correct that most of the traction management or stability control events are getting back on the gas from corner apex, probably a bit too much. I will work on modulating the throttle better and feeling the car rather than relying on the nannies. It's pretty much every corner, so I have some stuff to work on there.

[Briland_1LE]

I love how the ZLE doesn't look out of place next to the GT3 911 behind it!

[RamAir02]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

I love how the ZLE doesn't look out of place next to the GT3 911 behind it!

I run most events with PCA (Porsche Club of America), so it's very common to be one of a couple or a few Camaros at the event. This car can hang with 991 GT3s. Not sure about 992 GT3s -- they seem like quite the beast! Honestly, I love being the Camaro amongst the sea of Porsches. Many don't know what this car is capable of and it makes for great conversations.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by RamAir02

Perhaps interesting -- That second blue line where the ASM kicked in was going into the bus stop. I think ASM kicked in from the car being unsettled on the curbing going in.

That said, you're correct that most of the traction management or stability control events are getting back on the gas from corner apex, probably a bit too much. I will work on modulating the throttle better and feeling the car rather than relying on the nannies. It's pretty much every corner, so I have some stuff to work on there.

Yep, I'd agree about that 2nd blue line ASM. Looks like it occurred during maintenance throttle, so rear tires should have been stable. You certainly got all of that curb on the right side!

You mentioned the Porsche club HPDEs. I had heard that those guys can be snobs, especially to non-Porsche drivers, and purposely not give point-by's when you catch up to them. What's your experience been?