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Old 07-23-2020, 05:16 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by LT4Greg View Post
2SS 1LE with the A10 would most likely be in the mid to high 50s with options and in my opinion if you are going to spend that much you might as well buy a no/low option ZL1 with the A10!
I don't agree with this...

I bought (ordered, brand new) a 2020 2SS with A10, NPP, MRC, Red Calipers, Carbon Flash Wheels, Footwell lighting, Black Camaro Badge for under $45k...

The 1LE package would add $7,000 however the 1LE comes with NPP ($995), MRC ($1,695) and red calipers ($395) plus you can't get an A10 ($1,595) with the 1LE (in 2020), so subtracting those out, you should be able to get a 2SS 1LE for around $47k or so... Even adding in the A10 (for 2021) it would still only be about $48,500... Well below the "Mid to high 50's" you stated... A similarly equiped ZL1 (with the 1LE package) is $66k or about $17,500 more than a 2SS 1LE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock-It Man View Post
Two reasons to not "might as well":

1. ZL1 is too much car for almost everyone
2. ZL1 availability is VERY limited
I agree, the only way I would have considered the ZL1 is if I was going to track the car, my 2SS is plenty on the street...
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2020 SGM 2SS - A10, NPP, MRC, Red Calipers, Black Camaro Fender Badge, Footwell Lighting
Added after delivery: - GMP CAI, GMP Black Strut Tower Brace, MRR017 1LE Wheels, SS Armrest, Black Fuel Door, Stainless Sport Pedals, SS Wheel Caps, Black Lugs/Locks, GM Splash Guards, DD Smoked LED Markers, Smoked Rear Reflectors, Mishimoto Catch Can, Xpel PPF - Full Front, SunTek 35% Tint, CeramicPro coating, RST Stainless Brake Lines, Castrol SRF, MSD Super Conductor Wires

Left: My "fun" ride. Right: My "work" ride: a Gulfstream G600. One's top speed is 180 Mph, the other, 620 Mph...
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:06 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SS Capt View Post
I don't agree with this...

I bought (ordered, brand new) a 2020 2SS with A10, NPP, MRC, Red Calipers, Carbon Flash Wheels, Footwell lighting, Black Camaro Badge for under $45k...

The 1LE package would add $7,000 however the 1LE comes with NPP ($995), MRC ($1,695) and red calipers ($395) plus you can't get an A10 ($1,595) with the 1LE (in 2020), so subtracting those out, you should be able to get a 2SS 1LE for around $47k or so... Even adding in the A10 (for 2021) it would still only be about $48,500... Well below the "Mid to high 50's" you stated... A similarly equiped ZL1 (with the 1LE package) is $66k or about $17,500 more than a 2SS 1LE...

I agree, the only way I would have considered the ZL1 is if I was going to track the car, my 2SS is plenty on the street...
A 2021 2SS 1LE A10 with PDR is $53,390 MSRP.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:24 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Rock-It Man View Post
Two reasons to not "might as well":

1. ZL1 is too much car for almost everyone
2. ZL1 availability is VERY limited
I'll add that the MSRP is $15,500(with gas guzzler tax) more than a comparably equipped 2SS 1LE. That's a pretty big jump.
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:02 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by GearheadSS View Post
A 2021 2SS 1LE A10 with PDR is $53,390 MSRP.
MSRP would be $52k (You have a $1,300 PDR on there)... You should be able to get that car for under $48k with negotiating...
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2020 SGM 2SS - A10, NPP, MRC, Red Calipers, Black Camaro Fender Badge, Footwell Lighting
Added after delivery: - GMP CAI, GMP Black Strut Tower Brace, MRR017 1LE Wheels, SS Armrest, Black Fuel Door, Stainless Sport Pedals, SS Wheel Caps, Black Lugs/Locks, GM Splash Guards, DD Smoked LED Markers, Smoked Rear Reflectors, Mishimoto Catch Can, Xpel PPF - Full Front, SunTek 35% Tint, CeramicPro coating, RST Stainless Brake Lines, Castrol SRF, MSD Super Conductor Wires

Left: My "fun" ride. Right: My "work" ride: a Gulfstream G600. One's top speed is 180 Mph, the other, 620 Mph...
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:09 PM   #145
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Don’t believe they getting rid of the spectrum lighting.
Wild Cherry Tintcoat Sounds interesting wonder if it will be lighter or darker than Garnet Red Tintcoat
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:51 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by NYJets12 View Post
Don’t believe they getting rid of the spectrum lighting.
Wild Cherry Tintcoat Sounds interesting wonder if it will be lighter or darker than Garnet Red Tintcoat
Spectrum lighting is (was) yet another epic fail on these cars. There's ZERO point in allowing the driver to choose to associate colors to driving modes and then pre-choose what color goes with what mode according to what GM wants. Just add it to this list...

- Spectrum lighting brightness can't be adjusted independently of the other lighting in the car, and it's too much brighter than everything else
- The head-up display is invisible in the daytime if you're wearing polarized glasses because of the polarization angle they use for its display - you have to tilt your head to the right to see it
- The car always starts up with Rev Match off (Manual)
- The car always starts up in Touring mode
- Steering, suspension, and exhaust settings are either full manual or associated to driving modes according to what -GM- thinks is appropriate
- NPP valves are open at start and close 5 or so seconds AFTER the loudest part of a cold-start
- Power window controls are "weird" with how you have to switch back and forth between front and rear control
- Why isn't there a setting to auto-up the windows after lowering the top as part of the process?
- Why isn't there a setting to auto-up the windows after closing the top as part of the process?
- Why do I have to depress the brake AND the clutch to start the car if it's Neutral?
- Why does I have to keep my foot on the clutch until after the car has actually started (removing it early will stop the car from cranking and it won't start)?
- Why can't I have remote start in a manual as long as the car is left in neutral?
- Please stop offering wireless charging in cars - it's completely useless with Apple Car Play and Android Auto (where you have to use a cable connection which also charges)
- Does anyone at GM think that anyone owns a phone that will fit in the little "pad" behind the console (which is where the wireless charging would be)?
- Where's my Homelink?
- Why are there only two USB ports in this car, and they're both in the center console where a phone ALSO won't fit?
- Why is there only one 12V socket and why is is placed where charging cables will suffer premature wear from being used?
- Why is there NOWHERE in this car to put a phone while you're driving?
- Why do I have to set the PARKING BRAKE to open the trunk with the engine running (manual transmission)? Isn't it enough to know that the car is stationary? This is a pain in the ass when you're trying to pick someone up that just stepped out of the store and they want to drop the (admittedly very small) bag of things they just bought into the trunk before getting into the car.

GM got so much right on this car, but it's just another example of those responsible for the interior not having a clue about owning and driving a car.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:54 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
Spectrum lighting is (was) yet another epic fail on these cars. There's ZERO point in allowing the driver to choose to associate colors to driving modes and then pre-choose what color goes with what mode according to what GM wants. Just add it to this list...

- Spectrum lighting brightness can't be adjusted independently of the other lighting in the car, and it's too much brighter than everything else
- The head-up display is invisible in the daytime if you're wearing polarized glasses because of the polarization angle they use for its display - you have to tilt your head to the right to see it
- The car always starts up with Rev Match off (Manual)
- The car always starts up in Touring mode
- Steering, suspension, and exhaust settings are either full manual or associated to driving modes according to what -GM- thinks is appropriate
- NPP valves are open at start and close 5 or so seconds AFTER the loudest part of a cold-start
- Power window controls are "weird" with how you have to switch back and forth between front and rear control
- Why isn't there a setting to auto-up the windows after lowering the top as part of the process?
- Why isn't there a setting to auto-up the windows after closing the top as part of the process?
- Why do I have to depress the brake AND the clutch to start the car if it's Neutral?
- Why does I have to keep my foot on the clutch until after the car has actually started (removing it early will stop the car from cranking and it won't start)?
- Why can't I have remote start in a manual as long as the car is left in neutral?
- Please stop offering wireless charging in cars - it's completely useless with Apple Car Play and Android Auto (where you have to use a cable connection which also charges)
- Does anyone at GM think that anyone owns a phone that will fit in the little "pad" behind the console (which is where the wireless charging would be)?
- Where's my Homelink?
- Why are there only two USB ports in this car, and they're both in the center console where a phone ALSO won't fit?
- Why is there only one 12V socket and why is is placed where charging cables will suffer premature wear from being used?
- Why is there NOWHERE in this car to put a phone while you're driving?
- Why do I have to set the PARKING BRAKE to open the trunk with the engine running (manual transmission)? Isn't it enough to know that the car is stationary? This is a pain in the ass when you're trying to pick someone up that just stepped out of the store and they want to drop the (admittedly very small) bag of things they just bought into the trunk before getting into the car.

GM got so much right on this car, but it's just another example of those responsible for the interior not having a clue about owning and driving a car.
That's quite a list

Some things you mention do not apply to any manual tranny car. At least none that i have owned, or driven.
Is this your first manual tranny car?

The car starts up in Touring, because legally they want all the nannies on and that's a good thing.

The phone does fit nicely in a door side pocket. It also fits (but not as nicely) in a console.

Trunk opening requiring a parking brake on is a safety design and for a good reason imo.

I dont know anyone that parks their manual tranny car in neutral. Personally i dont think it is a good idea just im case a parking brake slips.

What is the issue with having exhaust, suspension and steering be able to be set manually, or automatically per a drive mode?

I agree, that storage in the car is extremely limited. Thank goodness for the rear seats But, there is still tons to love this car for - thankfully )

Cheers!
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:41 PM   #148
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GM should have made DeLorean CEO in ‘74 and every CEO thereafter in his mold. Then today the Camaro would be a world class Ferrari beating, fire breathing monster with 850 hp and sticker for $25,000 fully loaded.

It would also have full remote window and moonroof open/close, two universal wireless chargers big enough to put laptops on, 10 USB ports, a 12” display with full user access to every function of the ECM and full user adjustability from fuel pressure to trunk remote operational while the car is doing 100 mph, easily upgraded sound system - in fact the Chevy dealer would offer a vast array of aftermarket speakers and amps from JBL, Focal, JL Audio, Alpine, and Pioneer among others, and remote start while in neutral, or first gear, so it can drive by you and you can hop in like you were Michael Knight.
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:10 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
- Please stop offering wireless charging in cars - it's completely useless with Apple Car Play and Android Auto (where you have to use a cable connection which also charges)
...

- Does anyone at GM think that anyone owns a phone that will fit in the little "pad" behind the console (which is where the wireless charging would be)?
...
- Why is there NOWHERE in this car to put a phone while you're driving?
Several good points in there, let me respond to just the few phone-specific ones I for one love the wireless charging feature, never plug my phone in, never used Android Auto except a few times for testing, and my phone fits on the charging pad. Said phone also stays put on the rubber pad no matter the way I drive. Granted, my phone is a 2017 Samsung model, but I couldn't care less about phones, they're all the same to me.

Now I do understand that many owners don't care for the built-in navigation and are (relatively) happy to fiddle with USB cables, I'm not one of them. Moreover, I actually love the HUD and DIC integration of the factory nav, and, somewhat surprisingly, Google Maps led me astray more times than GM's navigation software.

So where am I going with all this? Just wanted to point out we're not all alike and some of these things you pointed out aren't obvious failures. Yeah, the wireless charging pad should be larger indeed, they mostly fixed this lack of foresight later in the C8 and the new Tahoe/Suburban. Never backporting significant improvements is nothing new for GM and several other carmakers. To their credit, GM did at least release an updated wireless charger module for the Camaro that actually works with late model phones.

(BTW it's a bit inconsistent of you to criticize the lack of configurability in many of your points, yet you ask for GM to remove a feature just because you consider it useless—how about those that never want to change their settings linked to driving modes, for example, they could easily argue you're asking GM to spend resources on a "useless" feature.)
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:29 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Petrol Head View Post
GM should have made DeLorean CEO in ‘74 and every CEO thereafter in his mold. Then today the Camaro would be a world class Ferrari beating, fire breathing monster with 850 hp and sticker for $25,000 fully loaded.

It would also have full remote window and moonroof open/close, two universal wireless chargers big enough to put laptops on, 10 USB ports, a 12” display with full user access to every function of the ECM and full user adjustability from fuel pressure to trunk remote operational while the car is doing 100 mph, easily upgraded sound system - in fact the Chevy dealer would offer a vast array of aftermarket speakers and amps from JBL, Focal, JL Audio, Alpine, and Pioneer among others, and remote start while in neutral, or first gear, so it can drive by you and you can hop in like you were Michael Knight.
You have nailed it
Id add the 850hp should come from a 2L NA motor capable of returning 45 miles to a gallon - at a track.
And run on 87 octane with generic Canola oil being the approved choice for its lubricant.
Cheers!

PS The current car does have a remote window down feature.
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:51 AM   #151
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PS The current car does have a remote window down feature.
Yes I know. But not up, or moonroof.

BMWs have full down and up for all windows and moonroof. It’s all software, so if you can make them go down you can make them go up too. Just need to get into the ECM software.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:21 AM   #152
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Yes I know. But not up, or moonroof.

BMWs have full down and up for all windows and moonroof. It’s all software, so if you can make them go down you can make them go up too. Just need to get into the ECM software.
Right! Ive priced a comparable (performance wise - yet not as quick) Bimmer M2. $106k vs my 2020 1LE msrp $56 and on the road at about $46 with prevailing discounts. Happy to give up windows up and whatever other tech for the difference

PS Canadian prices.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:33 AM   #153
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Right! Ive priced a comparable (performance wise - yet not as quick) Bimmer M2. $106k vs my 2020 1LE msrp $56 and on the road at about $46 with prevailing discounts. Happy to give up windows up and whatever other tech for the difference

PS Canadian prices.
The remote open/close has been Standard on every BMW since around 2003. Even the Honda Accord has it now.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:37 AM   #154
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That's quite a list

Some things you mention do not apply to any manual tranny car. At least none that i have owned, or driven.
Is this your first manual tranny car?

The car starts up in Touring, because legally they want all the nannies on and that's a good thing.

The phone does fit nicely in a door side pocket. It also fits (but not as nicely) in a console.

Trunk opening requiring a parking brake on is a safety design and for a good reason imo.

I dont know anyone that parks their manual tranny car in neutral. Personally i dont think it is a good idea just im case a parking brake slips.

What is the issue with having exhaust, suspension and steering be able to be set manually, or automatically per a drive mode?

I agree, that storage in the car is extremely limited. Thank goodness for the rear seats But, there is still tons to love this car for - thankfully )

Cheers!
Definitely not my first manual. Which specific items are you pointing out don't apply to any manual?

Starting up in Touring mode because of "nannies" is fine, but just like every other feature in the car that I have to virtually sign my life and all rights to privacy away to use, give me, THE OWNER, the option to change it (even if it's with some caveats).

I haven't had a phone with a screen smaller than 5" diagonal for ten years. I don't know what phone you're using that fits in the console and door pocket, but it's definitely smaller than mine. Also, my point is for the passenger as well as there's zero place to put their phone that also allows them to retrieve it while the car is moving.

While requiring the parking brake to open the trunk can be viewed as being a safety feature, there are other ways to accomplish it... Require 0MPH and a long press on the button (or double press and hold or similar).

My issue with setting steering, suspension, and exhaust is that you get two options: Set everything manually and leave those settings through all drive modes, or allow GM to choose for you based on drive mode. Why can't I have the lightest steering feel in Touring and Sport with the stiff feel in Track? Have NPP be "Stealth" in all settings except Track? That's what isn't available to the owners - picking WHICH setting you get in different drive modes. It's the same with the lighting... One color and you have to go into the menus to change it, or GM picks the colors that are used to designate different modes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
Several good points in there, let me respond to just the few phone-specific ones I for one love the wireless charging feature, never plug my phone in, never used Android Auto except a few times for testing, and my phone fits on the charging pad. Said phone also stays put on the rubber pad no matter the way I drive. Granted, my phone is a 2017 Samsung model, but I couldn't care less about phones, they're all the same to me.

Now I do understand that many owners don't care for the built-in navigation and are (relatively) happy to fiddle with USB cables, I'm not one of them. Moreover, I actually love the HUD and DIC integration of the factory nav, and, somewhat surprisingly, Google Maps led me astray more times than GM's navigation software.

So where am I going with all this? Just wanted to point out we're not all alike and some of these things you pointed out aren't obvious failures. Yeah, the wireless charging pad should be larger indeed, they mostly fixed this lack of foresight later in the C8 and the new Tahoe/Suburban. Never backporting significant improvements is nothing new for GM and several other carmakers. To their credit, GM did at least release an updated wireless charger module for the Camaro that actually works with late model phones.

(BTW it's a bit inconsistent of you to criticize the lack of configurability in many of your points, yet you ask for GM to remove a feature just because you consider it useless—how about those that never want to change their settings linked to driving modes, for example, they could easily argue you're asking GM to spend resources on a "useless" feature.)
Clearly, you're using a flip phone that supports wireless charging in order for it to fit in the charging area. j/k

GM has been adding wireless charging to various vehicles for 4 or 5 years. And, each time, they miss the mark on how widely useful it is. My comment about just giving up is because they are adding a feature that has narrow usability even though it has wide appeal. Predominantly, the issue is that the area that is available to place a phone on for charging is useful to only those that use smaller phones and don't put them in cases. Anything else, and the chances of the phone sitting correctly in the area go way, way down. Add to that the fact that GM (and other manufacturers) have been adding this feature to their vehicles since long before there was a "defacto winner" in which charging tech would ultimately be the dominant one. Lastly, many of the new phones support higher charging rates that require a "smart charger" to communicate with the charging chips in the phones in order to optimize charging speed - anything less, and the charging rate (from wireless) wouldn't keep up with the drain rate on a device.

Do I like the GM navigation? Maybe?. It's pretty much the same as what is in my Silverado and basically on par with what I've had in other vehicles for well over a decade. My biggest complaint about integrated navigation is that they charge a HUGE premium to update the maps (not -terribly- necessary most of the time) and you have to pay a subscription fee to access things like live traffic (which is frequently in accurate because the feeds lag by so much). What this really means is this... I am happy to use the built-in navigation when it makes sense to do so, but I use navigation apps on my phone because of their ability to intelligently (and quickly) route me around issues that arise during my drive. For this reason, connecting my phone via USB to leverage the Android Auto or Apple Car Play features makes sense. But the placement of those ports is poor.

For me, having "good support" of phones is important. And the Camaro doesn't have that. Does what they have work well for some? Yes. But, IMHO, it should (and COULD) be much better for far more people. With no place to store my phone, it sits "out in the open" and often times ends up shutting off because of the heat from the sun. Dropping the top and going for a long ride and leaving the phone to essentially just sit in the sun (remember, pretty much all phones are either a dark color overall, are in a dark colored case, or have a black screen) creates a situation where it gets VERY hot and goes into a self-protect mode and turns off.

As I said... GM did a lot right with this car. Then they turned it over to the people that handle the inside and they whiffed yet again. My Silverado is 5 years older and has things that work better than the Camaro (like more power outlets, more USB ports, and the ability for the Infotainment system to read out incoming text messages to me). I have yet to find anything in my car's system that even implies that it has access to text messages (even though the phone prompted me to allow the car to access text messages after pairing).
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