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Old 05-01-2021, 10:19 AM   #1
doogie2SS
 
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Not the power I had expected

last year I installed the Texas speed stage 3 cam with a 32% fuel lobe, all new valve springs, and the DOD/AFM delete, 16 Johnson racing lifters, Texas speed 7.825 push rods, cold air inductions (cold air intake), Texas speed headers 1 7/8 with cat deletes, Borla type S axle back exhaust, ( everything in the middle still factory exhaust). I then went to the dyno and after everything was done the Camaro put down 497.63 whp and 442.95 torque ( I did not get a baseline ) and the car is a M6. This year I installed MSD atomic manifold with katech 103mm throttle body, had my stock heads milled .003, ported, and a 5 angle valve job ( heads was ported by hand, NOT cnc'ed), DSX flex fuel, Granatelli spark plug wires, and a set of Weapon X valve covers. Went back to the same Dyno and tuner and Camaro put down 506.47 whp on pump 93 and I didnt see the torque, they then activated the flex fuel and put in 10 gallon of E-85, and the finale was 533.65 whp and 477.38 torque. I guess my question here is i thought for sure I would have gained more then 8 whp on pump gas with the added up grades, I was figuring 15-25 hp with manifold and throttle body and 25-30 hp with head work and 20-30 hp with flex fuel. Does anyone see anything wrong with this build are the numbers good,I'm not going to mention the turner name, or business, because if theres something wrong with install well thats on me and dont want to give a business a bad name for something I might have did wrong, any input is highly greatful, just want to make sure there is nothing im missing or over looking at this point. I have posted 2 sheets of the flow sheets for the head work also
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:24 AM   #2
6spdhyperblue


 
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Are you the fourth person not happy with a tsp stg3 cam build?
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:55 AM   #3
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Did you happen to log the run? What about atmospheric conditions? I've seen pretty large swings in power between summer and winter runs, even with correction. Using the same dyno for all your testing is good, but if your first run was in January and your second in August it's still tough to compare. I work at a dyno shop btw.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:17 PM   #4
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6spdhyperblue, I'm happy with the purchase of TSP cam, it's the 8WHP gain that i got with adding a MSD manifold, 103 throttle body, and ported/milled heads.

Doc Oc, it was back in April 3rd 2020, and I remember it being chilly that day, and now was on April 19 and the temp outside was 64'
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogie2SS View Post
6spdhyperblue, I'm happy with the purchase of TSP cam, it's the 8WHP gain that i got with adding a MSD manifold, 103 throttle body, and ported/milled heads.

Doc Oc, it was back in April 3rd 2020, and I remember it being chilly that day, and now was on April 19 and the temp outside was 64'
Could be the tune and the tuner. Not all are created equal.

On my 2011 C6, I installed an Edelbrock E-force. Factory tune was awful. Made 430 at the wheels which was only about 50 more than stock.

Had it dyno tuned and it made 480 to the wheels. Great, right? Nah, still didnít feel like it was where it should be.

Went to a different tuner a couple of months later. That tuner diagnosed a bad ignition coil that only showed up at 6000 rpm. When he finished, my car made 520 Tq/hp at the wheels and felt/drove way better.

It may be worth it to try a different tuner.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:32 AM   #6
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"Milled heads" but you said .003 that's barely anything. .007 = 1 cc (approx) so .003 is barely half a cc which I would equate to just a "resurfacing" rather than "milling" but then again if it was "milled" to resurface than technically that's milling... anyways.

Show the full graphs! Just showing us your "peak numbers" doesn't mean anything, its about the power throughout the rpm range!

And summing up my ramblings, your CAM setup is probably as good as its going to get and you adding slightly more air flow to it, (throttle body, upper intake, heads porting), is not going to give you "big gains".
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Old 05-03-2021, 02:53 PM   #7
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One thing is obvious: No need to run over a .600” lift cam on the intake.
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Old 05-05-2021, 04:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceme1117 View Post
Could be the tune and the tuner. Not all are created equal.

On my 2011 C6, I installed an Edelbrock E-force. Factory tune was awful. Made 430 at the wheels which was only about 50 more than stock.

Had it dyno tuned and it made 480 to the wheels. Great, right? Nah, still didnít feel like it was where it should be.

Went to a different tuner a couple of months later. That tuner diagnosed a bad ignition coil that only showed up at 6000 rpm. When he finished, my car made 520 Tq/hp at the wheels and felt/drove way better.

It may be worth it to try a different tuner.
I was thinking same thing about checking out a different dyno/tuner, nothing really close to me 2 1/2 - 3 hr. drive, but I guess its for a greater good. I still have a hard time believing a 8 hp gain on pump, hate to think something is going wrong with the motor, but thanks for the advice
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Old 05-05-2021, 04:17 PM   #9
doogie2SS
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobble Goat View Post
"Milled heads" but you said .003 that's barely anything. .007 = 1 cc (approx) so .003 is barely half a cc which I would equate to just a "resurfacing" rather than "milling" but then again if it was "milled" to resurface than technically that's milling... anyways.

Show the full graphs! Just showing us your "peak numbers" doesn't mean anything, its about the power throughout the rpm range!

And summing up my ramblings, your CAM setup is probably as good as its going to get and you adding slightly more air flow to it, (throttle body, upper intake, heads porting), is not going to give you "big gains".
You are correct on the resurfacing .003, still figured a lot more then just 8hp on pump gas, if I'm wrong for assuming this please let me know, I was figuring 550ish on pump gas, and thanks for the response. These sheets are with E-85, I didn't get the pump gas sheet but it was 506 hp
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Last edited by doogie2SS; 05-05-2021 at 04:23 PM. Reason: for got to add something to my statement
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Old 05-06-2021, 01:55 PM   #10
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Your numbers are good and your graph is nearly identical to other cars with similar setups.
https://youtu.be/p6_4qj6Epbs?t=826

This youtube link is of a Camaro with a similar setup to you. And the results / graph are practically the same.

I stand by what I said, your setup was pretty much as good as it would get and unfortunately the $ to hp ratio was not in your favor for the parts you replaced.


That said, I too would expect better gains with "ported" heads vs unported, but we don't have results on the flow rate of your heads before then after said hand porting.

And the obvious, despite the (dyno correction factor) , a car on the dyno one day will not have the same results on a different day.
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Old 05-06-2021, 06:02 PM   #11
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Hmmm, only gaining 8 hp with that work is strange. Others have posted results for those mods on the forum that are more in line with what you were thinking, examples:

MSD manifold (not ported), 3 different sources :
16 hp gain
17.1 hp gain
17.48 hp gain

Ported heads, one guy who does it for money posted that he gained over 20 hp while still having the stock cam. So basically going from bolt ons to bolt ons plus heads.

103 t/b, didn't see that one, but the shop who saw 17.48 hp gain with just the MSD manifold added a 95 t/b (also not ported) and then the total gain for the 2 parts together was 25.9 hp. So 8.42 extra with the larger throttle in that case.
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Old 05-06-2021, 06:11 PM   #12
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I’m gonna question the tuner if the rev limiter is still set to 6600
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Old 05-06-2021, 10:22 PM   #13
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You just can't base anything on the dyno numbers. How does the car feel? Have you taken it to the track before or after any mods? My C7 made 451 rwhp on the dyno and went 11.06@125 w/1.58 60ft. I tune on the dyno only and put no faith in the numbers as they just don't do justice for the build or track times. I have only a few mods so tuning is the key to getting the car down the track. I also have an ported MSD coming and will hopefully get it dialed in after my next race. I will dial it in on the dyno and see what happens at the track. Hopefully I won't be disappointed and I hate to see anyone spend a bunch of money like you have and not be happy. Do you have HP Tuners MPVi2? If you don't you should buy it, learn about what your tuner is doing, log your street pulls because if you don't you'll be going down a rabbit hole for a long tiime.
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