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Old 08-08-2017, 11:08 PM   #29
RenegadeXR

 
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Drives: 2011 Camaro SS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE View Post
Is your only purpose here to convince everyone that 5th gen >>>>> 6th gen?
It's a forum, and I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm obviously very biased toward the 5th gen from the start. I don't see the issue really as I'm totally cognizant of this fact. I remain interested in the 6th gen as well and am open to the prospect of one day upgrading, which is why I am active on this site. If my commentary bothers you, feel free to ignore me.

At the end of the day, it's because I am evaluating the 6th gen for purchase that I end up joining the mosh of group mentality for these quality issue threads. These cars are by no means cheap, and it isn't unrealistic to expect a near perfect fit and finish. While I do have bias to the 5th gen for a lot of reasons, I understand that the 6th gen is the better car in some aspects. Fit and finish stuff just doesn't help me when I'm on the fence.

I'd also consider the fact that complaints from owners are venting / nitpicking, but complaints from somebody like me who isn't an owner can come off as an external attack. That isn't my intent though. Again, it's just my own lamenting. I need to be solidly convinced before I jump ship and move on from a car I've invested a lot of time and effort into.
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Disclaimer: Unless specific sources are cited, all of the above is my subjective opinion. No warranties, expressed or implied, are granted. This is a car forum, after all.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:33 AM   #30
Makatich
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LE
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TSB #17-NA-298: Headliner Sag - (Jan 16, 2019). The dealership looked up this TSB and they just ordered a new windshield and headliner. Apparently the headliners were not installed correctly on the assembly line. All repairs covered under bumber-to-bumber factory warranty. Issue was that the front of headliner at the windshield was coming down and sagging. Maybe the UAW was angry at GM and they took it out on the customers . Car is also in for a leaking oil pan due to seal failure.

My 2017 1LE is my first American car in over 20 years. Bought it as a second car for track days. With Lexus’s and Honda’s I just never, never have any quality related issues. It’s unfortunate that the Americans did not embrace Edwards Deming decades ago...
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:10 AM   #31
L8Apex
 
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Originally Posted by Makatich View Post
TSB #17-NA-298: Headliner Sag - (Jan 16, 2019). ...With Lexus’s and Honda’s I just never, never have any quality related issues. It’s unfortunate that the Americans did not embrace Edwards Deming decades ago...
Thank you for the TSB, but I've had plenty of issues with our Honda Odyssey and Civic. Mazda6 has been one issue after another. All purchased new, and maintained. What is it they do so well again that we don't?
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:03 AM   #32
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They provide their buyers with Koolaid.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:31 AM   #33
mmadden2
 
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I had my headliner replaced a few months ago because it was cut small near the passenger door area and was poking out a little. My dealer replaced the windshield and headliner without issue, it's perfect now!
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:04 AM   #34
Makatich
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LE
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I am glad to see that there are fans of American cars and the quality that they have being on-par with Japanese automakers. My intent is not to take this thread off topic. Cars are very emotional and we buy them because we love them!

It has to do with the entire management, engineering and the production system called Total Quality Management that Toyota has branded the Toyota Production System. This philosophy is a benchmark of quality not only among car manufactures but among manufacturing globally in general. Edward Deming was a famous statistician in the 50’s who pitched statistical controls and quality improvement methods to the American manufacturing giants and they wanted nothing to do with it. He then went to Japan where they embraced his methods and went from producing some of the worst quality products at to some of the best in the world by adopting and improving upon his methods.

During my career I was recently a VP of Supply Chain for a multi billion dollar international company and through my career I have consulted and been inside of numerous American and Japanese auto assembly facilities, headquarters met with numerous Tier 1 suppliers and what you notice is striking.

For example there is a large inventory of cars coming off of the assembly lines at GM that are waiting for repairs. Cars coming down the line with defective parts are tagged in the production system by VIN and noted for later rework and fixes before they leave the plant. At the Camry plant in TN they have a zero defect policy. No cars are allowed to be produced with defects. If any employee notices a defective part being installed they immediately stop the entire production line and work to solve the issue before production resumes and they reward that behavior.

Most MBA students, students of operations research and management in general will review case studies and learn about lean and total quality approaches that permeate Toyota’s (Lexus) culture.

Here is a real quick blog article that introduces the topic and highlights how specifically GM failed at trying to copy and implement Toyota’s approach. Even GM’a top executives realize that they are not as quality oriented as Toyota. Slowly they are making progress and closing the gap. I hope that I see the day American auto giants are the recognized quality leaders globally.

Glad that the TSB for the headliner is helpful! Enjoy these 1LE’’s and get them to your local track ASAP! I am due for my first day this season at Gingerman Raceway in Holland, MI soon. Looking forward to a day at Grattan this season too, as I have not driven that track yet.

https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2017/0...r-reliability/
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:33 AM   #35
RyanR623
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makatich View Post

During my career I was recently a VP of Supply Chain for a multi billion dollar international company and through my career I have consulted and been inside of numerous American and Japanese auto assembly facilities, headquarters met with numerous Tier 1 suppliers and what you notice is striking.
https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2017/0...r-reliability/
Who did you work for? I work for Magna in supply chain.
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