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Old 11-22-2020, 06:50 PM   #7883
L78toLT1

 
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After doing a little research, I'm convinced this would be a drivers race. Car and Driver ran 11.4 / 132. I trapped basically the same in what had to be worse conditions. My only 1/4 mile passes in this car were at Camarofest X in what felt like 100 degree heat. If I start at 60 - 70 in 3rd gear, I will probably hook. No lift shift to 4th and I'm thinking I may pull him a bit until the top of 4th. With the big jump from 4th to 5th in the SS m6, if we don't run out of road, he may catch me. Either way, it should be close
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Old Yesterday, 01:54 AM   #7884
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So Dodge builds a Hellcat powered SRT Durango and gives it to one of their guys to test it before it gets released...long story short, dude takes it home, leaves it in the driveway, shit gets stolen. Now I think this is all just a publicity stunt which I dislike. Get some free advertisement and all. Because who is stupid enough to take a pre-production vehicle costing as much as this thing most assuredly costs and just leaves it in a driveway with no security measures in place? No cameras. No tracking devices. Nothing. And in a high crime area most notable for vehicles being stolen. So either they gave it to the dullest employee they have or this is a publicity stunt.
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Old Yesterday, 04:07 AM   #7885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L78toLT1 View Post
After doing a little research, I'm convinced this would be a drivers race. Car and Driver ran 11.4 / 132. I trapped basically the same in what had to be worse conditions. My only 1/4 mile passes in this car were at Camarofest X in what felt like 100 degree heat. If I start at 60 - 70 in 3rd gear, I will probably hook. No lift shift to 4th and I'm thinking I may pull him a bit until the top of 4th. With the big jump from 4th to 5th in the SS m6, if we don't run out of road, he may catch me. Either way, it should be close
i can see the camaro being slow off the hit and never being able to recover. you have to consider the gt500 achieved those trap speeds in basically the same manner - not being able to put the power down. m6 cars are still hard to beat from a roll if you can drive. that doesn't simply mean just a no-lift shift, it means a fast and clean shift. i've seen a lot of very slow no lift shifts.
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Old Yesterday, 07:04 AM   #7886
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i can see the camaro being slow off the hit and never being able to recover. you have to consider the gt500 achieved those trap speeds in basically the same manner - not being able to put the power down. m6 cars are still hard to beat from a roll if you can drive. that doesn't simply mean just a no-lift shift, it means a fast and clean shift. i've seen a lot of very slow no lift shifts.

Iím 61 years old and have been driving and drag racing manual trans cars for decades. My reflexes are still holding up farily well, and Iím well versed in no lift shifting. I donít think driver skill will be a significant impediment, especially in a roll race. Given that I bested C&Dís GT500 trap speed by 1 mph on a stifling hot day, I think I have a slight power edge. I remain optimistic that I could hold off a GT500 on a roll, at least until I fall into the huge hole between 4th and 5th gear.
I love my manual but must admit that the performance toll it extracts vs. a modern automatic is occasionally a bit of a downer. When I came along, manuals were faster than autos across the board. Things have certainly changed in that regard.
One thing I can say with absolute certainty: If I ever do run across a GT500 on an open highway, I hope that heís bone stock!
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Old Yesterday, 07:14 AM   #7887
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Originally Posted by L78toLT1 View Post
Iím 61 years old and have been driving and drag racing manual trans cars for decades. My reflexes are still holding up farily well, and Iím well versed in no lift shifting. I donít think driver skill will be a significant impediment, especially in a roll race. Given that I bested C&Dís GT500 trap speed by 1 mph on a stifling hot day, I think I have a slight power edge. I remain optimistic that I could hold off a GT500 on a roll, at least until I fall into the huge hole between 4th and 5th gear.
I love my manual but must admit that the performance toll it extracts vs. a modern automatic is occasionally a bit of a downer. When I came along, manuals were faster than autos across the board. Things have certainly changed in that regard.
One thing I can say with absolute certainty: If I ever do run across a GT500 on an open highway, I hope that heís bone stock!
Any loss you take will purely be due to the trans and doesn't reflect on you. It's just that you have a particular disadvantage that will be significant. And yea you're gonna have to beat him before switching to 5th because that is where he might overtake you. Or if you have a decent lead then you might be able to keep the lead somewhat.

If I may ask, what mods do you have that put you at 730 RWHP? Is there room for more if you want to turn it up? I mean, if you're on the stock blower then you might be tapped out. But if you have a blower and cam swap then maybe dial it up a bit. I say that because I pretty much think that any 500 you come across will most likely be pulley/tune/LTs and in the 800+ range. Plus I think the days where 600 and 700 RWHP cars are just not gonna cut it anymore against the big dogs.
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Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM   #7888
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
Any loss you take will purely be due to the trans and doesn't reflect on you. It's just that you have a particular disadvantage that will be significant. And yea you're gonna have to beat him before switching to 5th because that is where he might overtake you. Or if you have a decent lead then you might be able to keep the lead somewhat.

If I may ask, what mods do you have that put you at 730 RWHP? Is there room for more if you want to turn it up? I mean, if you're on the stock blower then you might be tapped out. But if you have a blower and cam swap then maybe dial it up a bit. I say that because I pretty much think that any 500 you come across will most likely be pulley/tune/LTs and in the 800+ range. Plus I think the days where 600 and 700 RWHP cars are just not gonna cut it anymore against the big dogs.

Iím not really worried about whether I could outrun a GT500. Truth to tell, Iíll probably never have the chance to find out. Even if I do, it wouldnít hurt my feelings if I lost; thereís always someone faster. Itís just that my wifeís innocent query regarding our chances vs. a GT500 was an interesting match up to ponder. Usually I can give a definitive answer to questions of this nature: Yes, honey, we can probably take that Corvette, GT350, Hellcat, ect. (assuming theyíre stock). No, we probably canít take that modded GTR, 720S, 911 turbo, etc.
Blaq, itís f#@ing unreal that 600 Ė 700 whp doesnít cut it anymore, isnít it? Iím running a 2300 Maggie at around 10psi on a forged, cammed LT1 with LT4 fueling. My lowside (ZL1 pump with JMS voltage booster) is pretty much maxed out on e60. If I wanted to, Iím sure I could address the low side and possibly pulley my way into the low 800ís before running out of high side or injector. Iím okay with my current power level, the car is dead nuts reliable, and is a real beast on a road course. Iíve done numerous track days without breaking anything. Iím sure this would not be the case on the drag strip; even with my relatively modest power, if I hook, something is going to break before too long.
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM   #7889
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With your experience, and no errors in shifting, you will take the GT500 on a roll.

The biggest thing you can do is put a better tire on that car. At least an R888 or a DR so you won't blow the tires off.

A set of rears with a dedicated strip tire like an ET Street R will also cut around 0.5-0.7 off that 60' as well.
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Old Yesterday, 09:13 AM   #7890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L78toLT1 View Post
Iím not really worried about whether I could outrun a GT500. Truth to tell, Iíll probably never have the chance to find out. Even if I do, it wouldnít hurt my feelings if I lost; thereís always someone faster. Itís just that my wifeís innocent query regarding our chances vs. a GT500 was an interesting match up to ponder. Usually I can give a definitive answer to questions of this nature: Yes, honey, we can probably take that Corvette, GT350, Hellcat, ect. (assuming theyíre stock). No, we probably canít take that modded GTR, 720S, 911 turbo, etc.
Blaq, itís f#@ing unreal that 600 Ė 700 whp doesnít cut it anymore, isnít it? Iím running a 2300 Maggie at around 10psi on a forged, cammed LT1 with LT4 fueling. My lowside (ZL1 pump with JMS voltage booster) is pretty much maxed out on e60. If I wanted to, Iím sure I could address the low side and possibly pulley my way into the low 800ís before running out of high side or injector. Iím okay with my current power level, the car is dead nuts reliable, and is a real beast on a road course. Iíve done numerous track days without breaking anything. Iím sure this would not be the case on the drag strip; even with my relatively modest power, if I hook, something is going to break before too long.
I don't know why I asked what your mods are instead of just checking your sig. All this time I thought you were in a ZL1. It would be a good race for sure.
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Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM   #7891
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Off topic. I just want to let you guys know, I might be doing another assignment to help out some of the struggling hospitals again. Except this time it might be out of the Tri-State area. I might be heading to North Dakota to help them. Some of these states are having a bad time with worker shortages right now. And I am currently discussing options with my agency and other agencies. So if you do not hear from me for a while then that is why. Most likely it'll be 13 week contracts if they do not get extended. So we'll see. Just so you guys don't all freak out and be all worried sick and miss me like crazy.
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM   #7892
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If you do take the assignment take care of yourself!
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old Yesterday, 03:58 PM   #7893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L78toLT1 View Post
After doing a little research, I'm convinced this would be a drivers race. Car and Driver ran 11.4 / 132. I trapped basically the same in what had to be worse conditions. My only 1/4 mile passes in this car were at Camarofest X in what felt like 100 degree heat. If I start at 60 - 70 in 3rd gear, I will probably hook. No lift shift to 4th and I'm thinking I may pull him a bit until the top of 4th. With the big jump from 4th to 5th in the SS m6, if we don't run out of road, he may catch me. Either way, it should be close
I think it would be a very close race against a stock GT500 - and likely the winner will be:

1) Whoever gets the initial hit (since it's difficult to start at the same time in a roll race) if both start at optimum speed and have traction, or
2) Depends on optimization of starting speed relative to gear selection:

Regarding #2 above, my car (light bolt on 2018 A10 GT PP1 with some weight reduction) has optimal rolling start ranges. 35-40 mph is great for 2nd gear (assuming warm tires), and 50-55 mph is great for 3rd. However, 45 mph might be a bit too fast for 2nd (2nd to 3rd happens at ~55 mph), and a tad too slow for 3rd gear to get the most optimal hit.

The C&D 132 mph trap speed is an average of two different runs in the opposite direction (so one direction may have been 133 mph with the other 131 mph, depending on wind), and corrected to standard conditions, per C&D:
"All of our straight-line acceleration results are the average of the best run in opposite directions, to account for wind. Ambient weather conditionsówe record absolute barometric pressure and wet- and dry-bulb temperatures tracksideódetermine how much power an engine makes. Because of that, we also correct acceleration results to 60 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Cooler air is denser and contains more oxygen, allowing the engine to burn more fuel and make more power. Similarly, high barometric pressure produces more power than low pressure, and dry air has more oxygen than moist air."

They do the two-way average and standard conditions correction to allow for a bit more apples to apples comparisons between cars tested in different conditions.

That said - your 133 mph trap speed would be higher at standard conditions if it was hot out and above sea level when you ran. But if that run was with the wind that could offset some of the improvement seen by the standard corrections. Good trap speed, none-the-less!
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Old Today, 09:47 AM   #7894
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The C&D 132 mph trap speed is an average of two different runs in the opposite direction (so one direction may have been 133 mph with the other 131 mph, depending on wind), and corrected to standard conditions, per C&D:
"All of our straight-line acceleration results are the average of the best run in opposite directions, to account for wind. Ambient weather conditionsówe record absolute barometric pressure and wet- and dry-bulb temperatures tracksideódetermine how much power an engine makes. Because of that, we also correct acceleration results to 60 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Cooler air is denser and contains more oxygen, allowing the engine to burn more fuel and make more power. Similarly, high barometric pressure produces more power than low pressure, and dry air has more oxygen than moist air."

They do the two-way average and standard conditions correction to allow for a bit more apples to apples comparisons between cars tested in different conditions.

That said - your 133 mph trap speed would be higher at standard conditions if it was hot out and above sea level when you ran. But if that run was with the wind that could offset some of the improvement seen by the standard corrections. Good trap speed, none-the-less!
The difference in heat does mean that the 'corrected' mph for the GT500 and the actual measured mph for L78toLT1's car are not directly comparable. Supercharged cars really do not like heat. I had one myself and have observed others as well. Example, talked to a guy with a modded Hellcat (800 wheel he said) at the dragstrip on a day where my car display said 91, and he told me that he was down 8mph because of the weather. Same thing would apply to the GT500, if 132mph is the result of correcting to 60 degrees, then you would not get that speed at ~90 degrees.
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