[minn19]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

You can't fault Porsche for that, all MFG. do it. Look at those who got the Supra, and now they are adding 50 HP.

Sometimes it pays to wait, and sometimes it just comes down to timing and/or luck.

In the same vain, but slightly different topic, I feel bad for those that are forking over MSRP on the C8 because of low supply, when we all know when the bottleneck is gone, those early adapters are going to get hosed in resale/deprecation.

Sure I can, I'm a consumer, but yes I agree most of them do it. The MT gearing is just cost cutting on Porsches part, which I don't agree with as a consumer. If they expect me to pay $50 (or whatever it is now) for a stupid Porsche crest on a wheel cap etc, then I expect them to design the transmission for the specific car etc.

But, I haven't bought anything else and the ZL1/1LE has stayed the same power etc so no hosing for once here.

Edit: They should've seen it coming with the Supra when the exact engine made more than that in the Z4. Toyota clearly detuned it for the first run of cars.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by minn19

Sure I can, I'm a consumer, but yes I agree most of them do it. The MT gearing is just cost cutting on Porsches part, which I don't agree with as a consumer. If they expect me to pay $50 (or whatever it is now) for a stupid Porsche crest on a wheel cap etc, then I expect them to design the transmission for the specific car etc.

But, I haven't bought anything else and the ZL1/1LE has stayed the same power etc so no hosing for once here.

Edit: They should've seen it coming with the Supra when the exact engine made more than that in the Z4. Toyota clearly detuned it for the first run of cars.

Yeah, but it's just progress. Things always move forward and improve, (well except for the //M brand for BMW, that new M3/4 is a train wreck and a move in the wrong direction)

I do agree with you though on Porsche being lazy on the manual, they didn't want to develop a new gearbox with different ratios, which with the margins they get, they should have.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Yeah, but it's just progress. Things always move forward and improve, (well except for the //M brand for BMW, that new M3/4 is a train wreck and a move in the wrong direction)

I do agree with you though on Porsche being lazy on the manual, they didn't want to develop a new gearbox with different ratios, which with the margins they get, they should have.

100% agreed on the G series M3/4s. Won't be tempted to go back for one of those, that's for sure. Speaking of being lazy. Considering the styling, weight, engine, interior and transmission choices, I can only imagine the half assed suspension tuning to. Speaking of being lazy and cost cutting............

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by minn19

100% agreed on the G series M3/4s. Won't be tempted to go back for one of those, that's for sure. Speaking of being lazy. Considering the weight, transmission choices, I can only imagine the half assed suspension tuning to. Speaking of being lazy............

Yeah, I think a couple of things are playing out over there...

They traded and cashed in on the "Ultimate Driving Machine" marketing for a long time now and I think the jig is finally over.

They have fallen behind and been surpassed in every performance oriented matrix (except power) and I think they are finally realizing that. Instead of arising to the challenge and improving what the //M brand stands for , they have decided to take it a different direction and go for the masses and water it down.

They have been beat at their own game of what they used to be know for with driving dynamics and handling.

I'm sooo over BMW as a brand, PERIOD!!!

[minn19]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Yeah, I think a couple of things are playing out over there...

They traded and cashed in on the "Ultimate Driving Machine" marketing for a long time now and I think the jig is finally over.

They have fallen behind and been surpassed in every performance oriented matrix (except power) and I think they are finally realizing that. Instead of arising to the challenge and improving what the //M brand stands for , they have decided to take it a different direction and go for the masses and water it down.

They have been beat at their own game of what they used to be know for with driving dynamics and handling.

I'm sooo over BMW as a brand, PERIOD!!!

100% agreed again.

[Checkmate1]

Just read through the whole thread -

OP - I also used to own an E90 M3. Good car but was too refined + heavy compared to the previous E46 M3 (which I also used to own).

Prior to my ZLE - I owned and tracked a C7 Z06. That car had one big issue - the chassis simply could not handle the power. I had 0 confidence on the back roads and on the track where it felt unstable. Needless to say - it didn't stay in the stable long.

I think the GT4 is one of the best balanced cars you can buy today where the chassis and drivetrain are in perfect harmony.

That being said - A recent GT4 owner (who switched to a 981 GT4) and previously owned a ZLE said the the drivetrain in the ZLE was superior (at least to him). The steering was also better in the ZLE. The 1LE team deserve a lot of credit for what they accomplished. Assuming he would have said the same for the SS1LE.

For someone like who doesn't want a 2 seater collecting dust (considering I have 2 young kids) - the ZLE works for me as it gets more miles and smiles. The fact that I don't have to get hit with the Porsche tax is also appealing.

Personally - the ZLE represents the finest handling car I have ever driven compared to a long line of M cars. The rawness and connectness thanks to the way it's calibrated is something I yearn for as sports cars these days get more and more refined.

[minn19]

Hey @TRZ06, I was just reading some of your threads on RL. I picked up a 6 MT Cayman GTS 4.0 last week. I know it isn't a SS1LE vs a GT4 and I only have about 400 mile backroad/break in miles on it. I figured I'd give you some thoughts on it between the ZLE and my current one.

First, they are completely different cars trying to do essentially the same thing. With that being said, I'm not going down the road that one is better than the other etc as they all are amazing cars.

The biggest differences are weight and power delivery. The Caymans are crazy light (31XX) compared to anything else I've ever had for a fun car. M3/4s are in the 3600-3700 hundred range and the GT350/ZLE were 3800-3900. It shows immediately as the Porsche is just so much more balanced and seems to want to change directions with ease n fun ways. This is where spec sheets don't show the whole story. My ZLE had much higher grip stats etc than the Cayman. But, so far in the real world the Cayman feels much more confidence inspiring and nimble. I don't know if it was the size of the front tires, ZLE weight or the fact I had it in GMs track alignment, but it would lose traction and push even in 70 degree summer temps for me on initial turn in sometimes. It caught me off guard a few times and I needed to make sure the tires were up to temp before doing any moderately aggressive maneuvers. The Cayman in 30-40 degree temps has shown none of that on PS4Ss and I actually have been turning in too much on my usual fun corners. There always seems to be a reserve of grip with this thing. I obviously haven't tracked it, but for the street I much prefer the Caymans handling over the ZLEs. As for the track I'm sure the much higher limits of the ZLE would be handy.

Power is where I miss the ZLE and I'm unsure, but you might miss your SS1LE. The LT1/LT4 are so good at making usable power everywhere. In the ZLEs case unbelievably fun power everywhere. The GT4/4.0 aren't slow by any stretch and they make good power everywhere, but I can tell it wants to be above 4k to make real power. I'm guessing you getting the PDK will help mitigate this as the manual has much longer gear ratios etc. That being said, the throttle response of the Cayman is unreal and also fun.

Interior fit and finish is obviously better in the Porsche, although I didn't mind the ZLEs interior at all. I also thing the ZLE/SS1LE have some better/more useful options. The ZLEs Recaro's were extremely comfortable, but didn't hold me in very well on the track. I have the LWBs and they are comfortable when you are in them, but nothing like the Camaro seats. Getting in and out of them is kind of bitch IMO also.

Price, obviously Porsches aren't even competitive in this regard. But, they definitely are the sum of their parts kind of cars that feel awesome and don't reflect well on spec sheets.

Nice seeing you on a third different forum now to. We seem to be on the same path in cars. How did you miss the GT350 though?

A couple pics, this is my winter/cold weather setup and not the stock wheels.

[Redlinez]

Funny, I've ridden motorcycles off and on since 1991 and found certain bikes to be void of character and too sterile. A lot of Honda sportbikes felt that way to me. I have driven several cars where I felt the suspension was looking for more power. Several people have said the C7Z overpowered its chassis. I know a lot of folks love the C6Z, I just can not stand that rental car cheap looking interior.
I still find it amazing that Chevy has made Camaros that are truly comparable to cars costing $25-50k more. I have found that my SS 1LE seems to slide easier than my 2017 Camaro SS 6 speed non 1LE did, kind of shocked me on one of my favorite on ramps, not in a good way.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by minn19

...
The biggest differences are weight and power delivery. The Caymans are crazy light (31XX) compared to anything else I've ever had for a fun car. M3/4s are in the 3600-3700 hundred range and the GT350/ZLE were 3800-3900. It shows immediately as the Porsche is just so much more balanced and seems to want to change directions with ease n fun ways. This is where spec sheets don't show the whole story. My ZLE had much higher grip stats etc than the Cayman. But, so far in the real world the Cayman feels much more confidence inspiring and nimble. I don't know if it was the size of the front tires, ZLE weight or the fact I had it in GMs track alignment, but it would lose traction and push even in 70 degree summer temps for me on initial turn in sometimes. It caught me off guard a few times and I needed to make sure the tires were up to temp before doing any moderately aggressive maneuvers. The Cayman in 30-40 degree temps has shown none of that on PS4Ss and I actually have been turning in too much on my usual fun corners. There always seems to be a reserve of grip with this thing. I obviously haven't tracked it, but for the street I much prefer the Caymans handling over the ZLEs. As for the track I'm sure the much higher limits of the ZLE would be handy...

This is what I have seen in one review comparing Cayman and Corvette as well. Corvette has higher limits, but Cayman feels better due to the lighter weight.

Sent from toaster or something

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by minn19

Hey @TRZ06, I was just reading some of your threads on RL. I picked up a 6 MT Cayman GTS 4.0 last week. I know it isn't a SS1LE vs a GT4 and I only have about 400 mile backroad/break in miles on it. I figured I'd give you some thoughts on it between the ZLE and my current one.

First, they are completely different cars trying to do essentially the same thing. With that being said, I'm not going down the road that one is better than the other etc as they all are amazing cars.

The biggest differences are weight and power delivery. The Caymans are crazy light (31XX) compared to anything else I've ever had for a fun car. M3/4s are in the 3600-3700 hundred range and the GT350/ZLE were 3800-3900. It shows immediately as the Porsche is just so much more balanced and seems to want to change directions with ease n fun ways. This is where spec sheets don't show the whole story. My ZLE had much higher grip stats etc than the Cayman. But, so far in the real world the Cayman feels much more confidence inspiring and nimble. I don't know if it was the size of the front tires, ZLE weight or the fact I had it in GMs track alignment, but it would lose traction and push even in 70 degree summer temps for me on initial turn in sometimes. It caught me off guard a few times and I needed to make sure the tires were up to temp before doing any moderately aggressive maneuvers. The Cayman in 30-40 degree temps has shown none of that on PS4Ss and I actually have been turning in too much on my usual fun corners. There always seems to be a reserve of grip with this thing. I obviously haven't tracked it, but for the street I much prefer the Caymans handling over the ZLEs. As for the track I'm sure the much higher limits of the ZLE would be handy.

Power is where I miss the ZLE and I'm unsure, but you might miss your SS1LE. The LT1/LT4 are so good at making usable power everywhere. In the ZLEs case unbelievably fun power everywhere. The GT4/4.0 aren't slow by any stretch and they make good power everywhere, but I can tell it wants to be above 4k to make real power. I'm guessing you getting the PDK will help mitigate this as the manual has much longer gear ratios etc. That being said, the throttle response of the Cayman is unreal and also fun.

Interior fit and finish is obviously better in the Porsche, although I didn't mind the ZLEs interior at all. I also thing the ZLE/SS1LE have some better/more useful options. The ZLEs Recaro's were extremely comfortable, but didn't hold me in very well on the track. I have the LWBs and they are comfortable when you are in them, but nothing like the Camaro seats. Getting in and out of them is kind of bitch IMO also.

Price, obviously Porsches aren't even competitive in this regard. But, they definitely are the sum of their parts kind of cars that feel awesome and don't reflect well on spec sheets.

Nice seeing you on a third different forum now to. We seem to be on the same path in cars. How did you miss the GT350 though?

A couple pics, this is my winter/cold weather setup and not the stock wheels.

Congrats on the new car, minn! Your description reminds me of my lotus elise back in the day, at least on the handling side, NOT the interior (interiors too heavy for those little cars, haha). So much fun. Let us know how the track days go. There's great reason you see so many cayman/boxters out there.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Congrats on the new car, minn! Your description reminds me of my lotus elise back in the day, at least on the handling side, NOT the interior (interiors too heavy for those little cars, haha). So much fun. Let us know how the track days go. There's great reason you see so many cayman/boxters out there.

Thanks, will do although it’ll be probably four-six months unfortunately before I get the chance again.

Keep enjoying that beast, I definitely miss it sometimes. I still agree with others and the posters above, it is amazing what Chevy has done with this platform. I was actually looking at a couple of new SS1LEs in my area, but they weren’t budging off of 50k. Plus my wife (who is one of the coolest around IMO, especially in regards to my car hobby/addiction), said I’ve always wanted a Porsche so why not try it out. I know what the Camaro is all about and can always go back.

[zx9rmal]

Originally Posted by minn19

Hey @TRZ06, I was just reading some of your threads on RL. I picked up a 6 MT Cayman GTS 4.0 last week. I know it isn't a SS1LE vs a GT4 and I only have about 400 mile backroad/break in miles on it. I figured I'd give you some thoughts on it between the ZLE and my current one.

First, they are completely different cars trying to do essentially the same thing. With that being said, I'm not going down the road that one is better than the other etc as they all are amazing cars.

The biggest differences are weight and power delivery. The Caymans are crazy light (31XX) compared to anything else I've ever had for a fun car. M3/4s are in the 3600-3700 hundred range and the GT350/ZLE were 3800-3900. It shows immediately as the Porsche is just so much more balanced and seems to want to change directions with ease n fun ways. This is where spec sheets don't show the whole story. My ZLE had much higher grip stats etc than the Cayman. But, so far in the real world the Cayman feels much more confidence inspiring and nimble. I don't know if it was the size of the front tires, ZLE weight or the fact I had it in GMs track alignment, but it would lose traction and push even in 70 degree summer temps for me on initial turn in sometimes. It caught me off guard a few times and I needed to make sure the tires were up to temp before doing any moderately aggressive maneuvers. The Cayman in 30-40 degree temps has shown none of that on PS4Ss and I actually have been turning in too much on my usual fun corners. There always seems to be a reserve of grip with this thing. I obviously haven't tracked it, but for the street I much prefer the Caymans handling over the ZLEs. As for the track I'm sure the much higher limits of the ZLE would be handy.

Power is where I miss the ZLE and I'm unsure, but you might miss your SS1LE. The LT1/LT4 are so good at making usable power everywhere. In the ZLEs case unbelievably fun power everywhere. The GT4/4.0 aren't slow by any stretch and they make good power everywhere, but I can tell it wants to be above 4k to make real power. I'm guessing you getting the PDK will help mitigate this as the manual has much longer gear ratios etc. That being said, the throttle response of the Cayman is unreal and also fun.

Interior fit and finish is obviously better in the Porsche, although I didn't mind the ZLEs interior at all. I also thing the ZLE/SS1LE have some better/more useful options. The ZLEs Recaro's were extremely comfortable, but didn't hold me in very well on the track. I have the LWBs and they are comfortable when you are in them, but nothing like the Camaro seats. Getting in and out of them is kind of bitch IMO also.

Price, obviously Porsches aren't even competitive in this regard. But, they definitely are the sum of their parts kind of cars that feel awesome and don't reflect well on spec sheets.

Nice seeing you on a third different forum now to. We seem to be on the same path in cars. How did you miss the GT350 though?

A couple pics, this is my winter/cold weather setup and not the stock wheels.

Nice write up, and beautiful car! I have the plain Jane ZL1, and I had a SS1LE before that. I'm sure you're a more skilled driver than me, but I do drive pretty aggressively in the corners in the real world. Confidence inspiring would be an understatement for the ZL1 and SS/Z/1LE's. But I can see how 500-700 lbs less weight would be a different experience.

Enjoy the car.

[Scottyz]

Nice purchase Minn and nice review. The new car looks great. Sharp for sure👌

[minn19]

Originally Posted by zx9rmal

Nice write up, and beautiful car! I have the plain Jane ZL1, and I had a SS1LE before that. I'm sure you're a more skilled driver than me, but I do drive pretty aggressively in the corners in the real world. Confidence inspiring would be an understatement for the ZL1 and SS/Z/1LE's. But I can see how 500-700 lbs less weight would be a different experience.

Enjoy the car.

Originally Posted by Scottyz

Nice purchase Minn and nice review. The new car looks great. Sharp for sure👌

Thanks guys!