[FarmerFran]

And maybe that electric Camaro will be here sooner than later...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

From all the reading it sure looks like GM is serious about Caddy and EV, to the point of buying out dealers.

The thing is, Cadillac dealers for a very long time are going to have to be able to support/repair both all the internal combustion Cadillacs AND the Electric Cadillacs. It's not like one day they wake up and it's all electric and no gas Caddys.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

The thing is, Cadillac dealers for a very long time are going to have to be able to support/repair both all the internal combustion Cadillacs AND the Electric Cadillacs. It's not like one day they wake up and it's all electric and no gas Caddys.

I agree but they are forcing out the ones that do not or cannot support the EV, now.

[MR's 2SS]

My wife has been driving Infinitys for 3 leases now. A sedan with 3.2 V-6 a Coupe with 3.2 V-6 and a Mini SUV with 3.2 V-6. The sedan and coupe were front engine rear drive dominant all wheel drive cars. Handled nicely and went pretty much like hell. Not compared to Camaro but nice cars. The QX 50 is front engine/front wheel dominant all wheel drive. Not a terrible vehicle. But I feel the front drive pulling the car all over on the highway. I just dont like the way that feels. Now Infinity no longer see fit to put a 6 in their smaller SUV. So sorry... not interested. The new Q-60 is a really nice car. 3.0 I think but now twin turbo... It runs great but I need to question long term reliability. Plus you could buy a Vette for what they cost. The Infinity dealership has been the best vehicle dealer I ever dealt with in my life. No kidding. I called them from the Chevy dealer and told them how much I regret that their company has made some decisions that put me off and even though I felt like I was cheating on my wife I was buying a Camaro.
All the dealer lots are full of 4 cyl toasters. And they are well into the 40s if not over 50 thousand dollars. And yes they are selling them. Not to enthusiasts though. Mostly leases Im sure. 3 years. Beat hell out of it. give it back.
Thats all I can see as the future of EVs. Appliances. Might be fun to drive. I drove some go carts at an indoor cart course with my kid when he was young and they were electric. Went like hell. I had a blast. So its possible.
But the obama administration leveraged GM into building the Volt. They built them. Someone here indicated they had fun driving one. It seems like a pretty good kind of cool looking instrament of transportation.
But nobody wanted them. The ones that sold did so with huge company discounts. They were sold at a loss. Because the public is not interested. And they have a long way to go before they change that in the market.
I see lots of Teslas in very affluent left leaning areas of North Jersey. They mostly make a political statement. Most modest income people who just need to get to work can not afford the price of entry.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

As a side note Toyota is still going strong making a real V6 engine in the Camry AND they spent money to develop an all new 6 speed manual gearbox for the 2021 Corolla.

While everyone else is stopping their sedan production, and killing their V6 engins and manual transmission, one of the most highly regarded companies on the planet for "fuel economy" is still selling 300 hp V6s and making manual transmissions.

I'm quite certain Toyota's BOD was spotted doing the happy dance writing thank you letters to Ford when they announced they were canceling the Fusion, and Honda when they announced they'd no longer offer a V6 in the Accord.

But the same company made one of their most well-known sports cars/GT at least 80% German. Tsk-tsk.

And just so you know, less than 20% of the Accord buyers and less than 10% of the Camry buyers opt for the high-power variant of each. Now you also have the hybrid variants that will probably start growing as well. Nothing for any car company to get excited about. It's not like Camry TRD is flying off the lot as we speak.

IMO it more boils down to economies of scale than anything.

In Toyota's case, their overall strategy is to rely on NA engines and hybrids, rather than turbocharging their engines. They actually do have a few turbocharged engines, they have a 1.2T engine they use in Corollas and CH-R outside of North America where displacement is more sensitive.

If you look at the Lexus lineup, they use a lot of V6s, so it makes sense to just stuff it in the Camry vs. making a turbocharged engine.

As for manual Corolla, there are parts of the world that still drive manual because they are cheaper, and they just came out with the Yaris GR. They could use a lot of that tech in the Corolla. There is supposedly a Corolla GR coming to North America soon.

Also, there is a difference between having a manual as an option, versus dealers actually having any in stock. There is actually a huge difference there. Even Honda ended up killing manual Accords recently. You can figure out why.

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

My wife has been driving Infinitys for 3 leases now. A sedan with 3.2 V-6 a Coupe with 3.2 V-6 and a Mini SUV with 3.2 V-6. The sedan and coupe were front engine rear drive dominant all wheel drive cars. Handled nicely and went pretty much like hell. Not compared to Camaro but nice cars. The QX 50 is front engine/front wheel dominant all wheel drive. Not a terrible vehicle. But I feel the front drive pulling the car all over on the highway. I just dont like the way that feels. Now Infinity no longer see fit to put a 6 in their smaller SUV. So sorry... not interested. The new Q-60 is a really nice car. 3.0 I think but now twin turbo... It runs great but I need to question long term reliability. Plus you could buy a Vette for what they cost. The Infinity dealership has been the best vehicle dealer I ever dealt with in my life. No kidding. I called them from the Chevy dealer and told them how much I regret that their company has made some decisions that put me off and even though I felt like I was cheating on my wife I was buying a Camaro.
All the dealer lots are full of 4 cyl toasters. And they are well into the 40s if not over 50 thousand dollars. And yes they are selling them. Not to enthusiasts though. Mostly leases Im sure. 3 years. Beat hell out of it. give it back.

Luxury cars have always been more about the interior than the powertrain, so that explains the price. I wouldn't buy an expensive car with 4-cylinder engine, either.

If I were to pick between an Ecoboost Mustang and V6 Camaro, I would take the V6 Camaro. I like my sports cars NA. I don't want no turbo lag for spirited driving.

But for a family car, I don't mind a turbo I4. The only thing is maybe the reliability, but given how most people drive their family car, I don't think the turbocharged engine will be too stressed over its life. Just make sure you idle them a little bit before you shut it off if you drive it hard(I know some people hate new habits here) so the turbo cools down properly. Otherwise, I don't mind the 2.5T Mazda6 I am driving right now just for daily. Better on gas than my old Accord V6 A5, even I drive both of them somewhat hard.

[JBinSD]

Reading these comments kinda cracks me up. The reasons people resist EV's are pretty broad, but seem unrealistic. I had a 2SS M6 vert with all the bells and whistles. Sold it and bought a Model 3 Performance. The Tesla smokes the Camaro off the line, handles better, and sips sunshine and farts rainbows.

I haven't been to a gas station in over a year (except for race gas for motorcycles and truck to get me there). Solar panels on my roof fuel my car.

And yet I'm here, drooling and dreaming again. There must be something wrong with me, because I miss dropping the top, rowing the gears, feeling the grumble and hearing the unnecessary, noise and earth-polluting roar of an awesome V-8. Selling my 'Maro was one of my very few automotive regrets, and I want another before the stop making them.
Wife put her foot down and said I could only have one car. Who said I have to have only one wife?

[UnknownJinX]

Speaking of Model 3, Jason at Engineering Explained made a video about doing a winter road trip in it. Very interesting to see it from an owner's perspective with numbers and calculations to back up his arguments.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by JBinSD

Reading these comments kinda cracks me up. The reasons people resist EV's are pretty broad, but seem unrealistic. I had a 2SS M6 vert with all the bells and whistles. Sold it and bought a Model 3 Performance. The Tesla smokes the Camaro off the line, handles better, and sips sunshine and farts rainbows.

I haven't been to a gas station in over a year (except for race gas for motorcycles and truck to get me there). Solar panels on my roof fuel my car.

And yet I'm here, drooling and dreaming again. There must be something wrong with me, because I miss dropping the top, rowing the gears, feeling the grumble and hearing the unnecessary, noise and earth-polluting roar of an awesome V-8. Selling my 'Maro was one of my very few automotive regrets, and I want another before the stop making them.
Wife put her foot down and said I could only have one car. Who said I have to have only one wife?

And it defies gravity!

[JBinSD]

I have no idea why my pics are always upside-down, really annoying. I flipped it before I posted and it still came out inverted. Grr.

[MR's 2SS]

HAHAHA... Im sorry to hear you sold your vert for a Tesla. Im sure they go fast. Electric motors have some of the advantages of the Wankle or Mazda rotaries. Everything's turning in the same direction all the time. In 1985 my RX-7 could smoke Vettes off the line and for some time after that. Out handle them too. It had a beeper that would sound off at redline so you could keep your eyes on the road and shift when it beeped. Great car and wearing the stock 13" wheels with snows in the back it was great in the snow too. I liked it a lot.
My dad went to Hondas I dont know in his late 70s. Starting with a V-6 accord. We tried a 4 cyl Accord in his mid 80s and he couldnt get rid of it fast enough. Inadequate power unless you stompped on it. Which isnt how he drives so it just felt like a slug. Now he has a V-6 Accord and all is right with the world except now hes 94 and we wont let him drive any more... When he saw us pull up in the Camaro he got all excited over it.
For me a vehicle need soul. They all have personality. Some you love, some you hate. All the memorable vehicles in my life made a lot of noise and rumbled a lot. Some smoked. I didnt buy the 1965 Ferrari with V-12.. carbs and Borrani wheels... for $7,000.00 because it smoked and I knew I couldnt afford to properly maintain it.... Now theres a regret. The 2 Merc Verados on our boat are very silent. Get them trimmed right and happy and you mostly hear blower whine... My neighbors bust my stones because its utterly silent idling up the lagoon.... I tell them the T top is a solar panel and the engines are electric....

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by JBinSD

I have no idea why my pics are always upside-down, really annoying. I flipped it before I posted and it still came out inverted. Grr.

It is a curse for selling a Camaro Convertible M6 for an EV!

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

Electric motors have some of the advantages of the Wankle or Mazda rotaries. Everything's turning in the same direction all the time. In 1985 my RX-7 could smoke Vettes off the line and for some time after that. Out handle them too. It had a beeper that would sound off at redline so you could keep your eyes on the road and shift when it beeped. Great car and wearing the stock 13" wheels with snows in the back it was great in the snow too. I liked it a lot.

An electric motor has a lot more torque than rotaries. The powerband for those two is also pretty different. An electric motor has constant torque up until a certain RPM and then constant power(which means torque drops off as you rev higher, AKA drive faster). An NA rotary has no low-end torque to speak of but has a nice and flat plateau of torque from mid RPM range up to the redline. Very different power delivery.

The turbocharged rotaries are better in the torque department, but you are trading reliability and longevity for that.

[MR's 2SS]

Yea they were not reliable. I was referring to the rotating mass. Not torque curve. That they spin without having a bunch of heavy parts swapping direction 6,000 times a minute.
They had some cracking issues in the cylinders as I recall. Fuel consumption was high. And they burned oil. In 1985 it wasnt unusual for engines in perfect shape to consume some oil. More than would be acceptable today. But they consumed a lot.
I never had a single problem with mine. But I only had it a few years and sold it with less than 30,000 miles. Needed a truck.

Ohh and theres not needing a transmission thing too. Just keep spinning.

I used to go to paper plants back in the 70s and they had 300 to 500 HP electric motors running parts of the plant. They were big and heavy castings but I always marveled at how they performed.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by JBinSD

And yet I'm here, drooling and dreaming again. There must be something wrong with me, because I miss dropping the top, rowing the gears, feeling the grumble and hearing the unnecessary, noise and earth-polluting roar of an awesome V-8. Selling my 'Maro was one of my very few automotive regrets, and I want another before the stop making them.
Wife put her foot down and said I could only have one car. Who said I have to have only one wife?

wow! This apostasy to the Branch Elonians, i would fear for my life!!! Remember, you are safe with us...

Not that you were a fanboy, just trying to kid. But anyway, that's the way it is with us enthusiasts, always looking for another car. I do wonder if performance oriented BEV's ~$40k can be made distinctive enough for satisfy different tastes. Since right now there's only the model 3, there just isn't enough EV's out there yet to compare and contrast.