[Jimmy Superfly]

Since the Z/28 development appears to be well underway I was curious what everyone thinks of the possibility of the new 10 speed automatic being an option for the Z/28.

THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION ON MY PART FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION!

Given how fast the 10 speed was shifting in those ZL1 videos this new transmission seems to be more capable than the 8L90E. If GM was willing to put the 8L90E in the Z06 then I don't see them having a problem putting an automatic in the Z/28 as long as it is up the the task of what a Z/28 should be.

The obvious benefit to doing so would would be the possibility of increased sales but would offering an auto take away from the purist attitude that the 5th gen Z/28 had (ie: radio and A/C optional)?

It appears that GM isn't offering an automatic on the 2017 1LE but maybe that's because they didn't want to steal the ZL1's thunder with the 10 speed announcement (or maybe the 10 speed wasn't ready yet). Again, if it is as good as it looked and can stand up to punishment then i wouldn't be shocked to see one available on the 2018 1LE.

What do you guys think?


Personally I think that as long as the 10 speed lives up to the hype and a manual is still available/standard they should do it. There is nothing wrong with having more choice.

[SpeedIsLife]

Given they didn't offer it with the 1LE, I'm going to place my wager on "no".

[shaffe]

No. This is a track focused car

[Bhobbs]

Personally, no. That's all I'm going to say.

[mcsoul]

If the 10 speed can handle all day track days and not die an early death, then sure!

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

If the 10 speed can handle all day track days and not die an early death, then sure!

All the while being faster around a track......I'm all for it.

[PYROLYSIS]

NO

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

No. This is a track focused car

Agreed.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I'm really split on this ever since they showed the ZL1 with an A10....I really enjoy manual transmissions, they're the only gearbox in a Camaro I've ever owned. They're clearly best-suited to a road-track environment where the driver needs (and should have) full control over the gearing of the car.

But this new A10....it shifts unbelievably fast. It will make the automatic ZL1 faster around a track than the 6-speed; I'm sure of it.And there are dedicated road-course cars...like Indy, F1, LeMans....that use sequential gearboxes, which are...effectively automatics...

So I ask (generally), is the option for the A10 a question of performance? Control? Exclusivity? Purity?

If it's one of the first two...the A10 fits the bill.

The biggest question and issue I'd be afraid of is the heat aspect. I have faith they've attended to that in the ZL1. But, I like having options, so I voted yes. But only because this isn't your grandfather's slushbox.

[HumanWiki]

I really don't understand automatic hate and bias towards manual if it can be proven that the auto is indeed more efficient, quicker shifting and gets the times better.

Yes, the C7Z A8 has some cooling issues on hard track usage -- those are noted, people are working on it and the C7 has less frontal area to divert air. Camaro has no such issue with that and that GM has 3 front mounted radiators and now 11 HX on the ZL1 (who knows on Z/28) shows they are aware and working to resolve it.

Preferring a stick over an auto just because it feels better or keeps the driver more "connected" in the feel-good department over raw performance data is like intentionally choosing an abacus over a computer for doing complex math. It just doesn't make any sense. Sure, you can choose which beads to move when, but I'd rather a computer do my hardcore math. It'll do it faster and more consistently every time.

If the chosen manual proves to be better, then so be it. But, it should at least be a performance choice.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I really don't understand automatic hate and bias towards manual if it can be proven that the auto is indeed more efficient, quicker shifting and gets the times better.

IMO,

It's largely due to the "need" for manual fans to have their very own "exclusive car". They need to have something to boast about. Automatics have wiped away the advantages the manuals had on the drag strip, they're rapidly eating away at the "unsuitable for tracking" reputation (the auto ATS-V has been tested to be faster around MRLS than the manual version) etc.

"I have a XYZ because it's manual only, it makes it more rare and a true drivers car" or something along those lines. They'll say things like "it will contaminate the legacy" or "disrespect the heritage" or some other thinly veiled security blanket for their choice. They need to have something more quantifiable than subjective statements like "driver engagement", "truly driving the car", "personality" and "being exciting". They'll run through the same tired old "I'll fall asleep" and "I'd die of boredom" lines that you see in every thread about auto vs manual.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Preferring a stick over an auto just because it feels better or keeps the driver more "connected" in the feel-good department over raw performance data is like intentionally choosing an abacus over a computer for doing complex math. It just doesn't make any sense. Sure, you can choose which beads to move when, but I'd rather a computer do my hardcore math. It'll do it faster and more consistently every time.

I disagree...I think a driver's personal choice factors in comfort level with familiarity and just...enjoyment. Some people () find manual transmissions more fun to drive than an automatic even paddle shifted. That doesn't mean we're using an abacus. And you've got to admit, rev matching, hill start assist, short throws, triple syncros, dual-mass flywheels, and lighter clutch force is certainly making driving manual transmissions almost as easy as driving an automatic. In some ways...all that makes it more advanced! Like a virtual abacus on a computer screen.

I believe the Viper ACR...fastest car in most circuits today, uses a manual transmission.

But I can agree with your confusion when people start talking about limitations "just because".

I found this video of a C7.R racing...damn, those shifts sound fast, just like the new A10...https://youtu.be/pxOl0b8K6FY?t=2m35s

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

IMO,

It's largely due to the "need" for manual fans to have their very own "exclusive car". They need to have something to boast about. Automatics have wiped away the advantages the manuals had on the drag strip, they're rapidly eating away at the "unsuitable for tracking" reputation (the auto ATS-V has been tested to be faster around MRLS than the manual version) etc.

"I have a XYZ because it's manual only, it makes it more rare and a true drivers car" or something along those lines. They'll say things like "it will contaminate the legacy" or "disrespect the heritage" or some other thinly veiled security blanket for their choice. They need to have something more quantifiable than subjective statements like "driver engagement", "truly driving the car", "personality" and "being exciting". They'll run through the same tired old "I'll fall asleep" and "I'd die of boredom" lines that you see in every thread about auto vs manual.

Yeah, I know.. I just wish it wasn't that way.. I don't much care anymore if someone has a manual trans.. That's great if that's what they want.. Totally their thing.. When I was younger, I was in the manual > auto camp and in the era, they were.. WAY better.. Even drag racing the manual was better and faster than the old slushyboxes.

If anything.. I would think the question should be.. Should Z/28 come in Convertible since there's a C7 Z06 w/Z07 in ragtop.. That would actually have more technical merit since there are solid reasons to not have a ragtop as a full on track car w/o taking in to account track restrictions on a non-solid roof.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

And you've got to admit, rev matching, hill start assist, short throws, triple syncros, dual-mass flywheels, and lighter clutch force is certainly making driving manual transmissions almost as easy as driving an automatic. In some ways...all that makes it more advanced! Like a virtual abacus on a computer screen.

To me, that just helps prove that more people are better when the computer is helping them -- like the auto does.

All of that stuff is relatively new to the world of manuals and there have been countless thousands of prior stick drivers that didn't get such assistance.

Back in the day when you had to know how to properly hold brake/clutch on a hill and heel-toe to not roll back. Properly judge RPM and target gear for your particular car. This is just off-loading more and more to the computer to do the work for you. At this point, you don't even need to give the car gas to start out. If you just release the clutch at the proper rate, the car will engage and go w/o. That was even so on the 5th gens. You're now pretty much left with 2 truly human operations as the manual operator. Operate the clutch. Move the shift lever. Especially when Rev-Match is on. You don't even have to throttle match any more. So, I'd see those all as detractors to the old-school and raw connection of a notchy manual with straight cut gears and a cable driven clutch.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just that auto hate is increasingly hard to justify factually and the sooner people start admitting it's just a preference, the sooner it can stop being a contention point that causes debates.

..and, a virtual abacus would just be a computer created fiction of its predecessor and more akin to manual mode auto that "pretends" to be a manual, without all the need of gates, syncros, clutches, rev matching etc.. You just get the cool factor of telling it the gear, instead of putting in the human labor of actually getting the gear.