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Old 04-25-2018, 11:13 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
The ZR1 is supposed to be the top Corvette. It’s got to be over the top. That’s why they went with the 2.65 blower and extreme aero.

The Z06 is “supposed” to still be the track Corvette. The ZR1 really is just a Z06 Z07+.
Also true. I guess what I was getting at is the Corvette is already a lighter car to begin with, and instead of going light weight route they went extreme power to make a faster car.

I just don't see a lower HP Camaro being faster than the ZLE. I know the 5th Gen Z/28 was faster than the 5th gen ZL1 but I just don't see it happening this go around. Maybe I am putting the ZLE to high on the pedestal lol
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:28 AM   #58
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While that is true, I just don't see a lower HP Camaro outdoing a higher horsepower one. I guess I am just a glass half empty type.

What did Corvette do to make the ZR1 faster than the Z06? They added a ton of aero bits, stripped weight were they could and gave it more power and more torque.

Why didn't they go with a NA motor and light weight extreme aero? My guess is that it wasn't going to be faster than the Z06/Z07
The 5th gen Z did...
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:48 AM   #59
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The 5th gen Z did...
Yes I know that, I even stated that the 5th gen did.

Here is the thing though, the ZLE basically already has all of the go fast goodies like DSSV, aero, tires, etc that a Z/28 would have. The 5th gen ZL1 didn't have that benefit. What some people are suggesting is that if you give a ZLE less power and less weight it will go faster and I just don't see it happening that way.

Maybe faster than a standard ZL1, but IMO the ZLE has set the bar pretty damn high
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:07 PM   #60
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IMO A Z/28 with a DCT and a 5.5L DOHC (Hope for a 7.0L) spinning at 8,000RPM with light weight brakes and Carbon Ceramic rimes will run faster then the ZL1LE at the ring, its not a 1/4 Mi race, its a road race.

PS all you will need is 560-600HP like to see more we all do.
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:15 PM   #61
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Yes I know that, I even stated that the 5th gen did.

Here is the thing though, the ZLE basically already has all of the go fast goodies like DSSV, aero, tires, etc that a Z/28 would have. The 5th gen ZL1 didn't have that benefit. What some people are suggesting is that if you give a ZLE less power and less weight it will go faster and I just don't see it happening that way.

Maybe faster than a standard ZL1, but IMO the ZLE has set the bar pretty damn high
Does the Z/28 have to be faster? What if itís just the better track car? GM is making at least 3 new twin-turbo DOHC V8s, and thereís bound to be N/A versions. A Naturally aspirated 5.4L DOHC V8 with 540hp would be lighter, smoother, and more fuel efficient than the LT4; all characteristics to look for in a track car, imo. Add Carbon Ceramic brakes, remove the rear seats, OFFER feature deletions and super lightweight seats, and youíve got a Z/28. Itís got all the features you want in a daily driver, and all the capability you need to lap tracks.

I mention fuel efficiency because the LT4 is a gas guzzler and more MPG=more track time.
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:37 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Also true. I guess what I was getting at is the Corvette is already a lighter car to begin with, and instead of going light weight route they went extreme power to make a faster car.

I just don't see a lower HP Camaro being faster than the ZLE. I know the 5th Gen Z/28 was faster than the 5th gen ZL1 but I just don't see it happening this go around. Maybe I am putting the ZLE to high on the pedestal lol
Corvetteís priority first and foremost is appealing to the old guys that buy them. Team Corvette has abandoned their roots to chase sales. Everything is now offered in automatic and convertible forms, even at the expense of performance. They donít even offer a fixed roof anymore.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:00 PM   #63
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Corvetteís priority first and foremost is appealing to the old guys that buy them. Team Corvette has abandoned their roots to chase sales. Everything is now offered in automatic and convertible forms, even at the expense of performance. They donít even offer a fixed roof anymore.
Sadly, you are 100% correct. I still remember when part of the C6's marketing campaign included a section regarding how you can fit two pairs of golf clubs/bags in the rear hatch area...I was like WTF?! Corvettes just don't excite me anymore, not even the ZR1. I had a 2013 ZL1 and current have a 17 GT350 and 16 Focus RS as my fun cars. These two are all about driving fun and are a blast to drive. I also have an order in for a 18 ZL1 1LE. Like the other two, the 1LE only comes in a manual tranny and I can't wait to add it to the collection.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:13 PM   #64
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Does the Z/28 have to be faster? What if itís just the better track car? GM is making at least 3 new twin-turbo DOHC V8s, and thereís bound to be N/A versions. A Naturally aspirated 5.4L DOHC V8 with 540hp would be lighter, smoother, and more fuel efficient than the LT4; all characteristics to look for in a track car, imo. Add Carbon Ceramic brakes, remove the rear seats, OFFER feature deletions and super lightweight seats, and youíve got a Z/28. Itís got all the features you want in a daily driver, and all the capability you need to lap tracks.

I mention fuel efficiency because the LT4 is a gas guzzler and more MPG=more track time.
To me, no it doesn't have to be faster. BUT because the 5th gen car put the Z/28 on a pedestal as a halo model, many believe it must be the fastest track Camaro offered. I think the formula you laid out would work perfect, I just don't think it would be the "halo" model people think it needs to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRS@Gen5diy View Post
IMO A Z/28 with a DCT and a 5.5L DOHC (Hope for a 7.0L) spinning at 8,000RPM with light weight brakes and Carbon Ceramic rimes will run faster then the ZL1LE at the ring, its not a 1/4 Mi race, its a road race.

PS all you will need is 560-600HP like to see more we all do.
I would love to be wrong, I just don't see it happening.
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:19 PM   #65
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They could easily make the Z/28 faster than the ZL1 1LE. The problem is that they can’t produce such a car because it would compete with the Corvette. That’s a big reason why we’re seeing the Corvette go mid-engine. If a Z/28 were to happen this generation, I believe it would enter production next September/fall as a 2020 model. That aligns with C8 production.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:56 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Quinten_33 View Post
Does the Z/28 have to be faster? What if itís just the better track car? GM is making at least 3 new twin-turbo DOHC V8s, and thereís bound to be N/A versions. A Naturally aspirated 5.4L DOHC V8 with 540hp would be lighter, smoother, and more fuel efficient than the LT4; all characteristics to look for in a track car, imo. Add Carbon Ceramic brakes, remove the rear seats, OFFER feature deletions and super lightweight seats, and youíve got a Z/28. Itís got all the features you want in a daily driver, and all the capability you need to lap tracks.

I mention fuel efficiency because the LT4 is a gas guzzler and more MPG=more track time.
A 5.4L DOHC engine won't necessarily be lighter then the LT4 which is about 530 pounds not to mention won't necessarily produce 540BHP. The old LT5 engine was about 600 pounds so if you want them to just stick a DOHC head on the Gen V SBC then expect that amount of weight taking off a few pounds. Also GM just generally doesn't tune its engines to the point where it will make 100BHP/L which I know is what you based that about 540BHP rating on.

Here is the thing, GM can take their 6.2L motor with the head and cam package and make that 540BHP on a lighter and more compact design then a DOHC head on an LT1 engine can pull off making it the superior choice for track use.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:57 PM   #67
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They could easily make the Z/28 faster than the ZL1 1LE. The problem is that they canít produce such a car because it would compete with the Corvette. Thatís a big reason why weíre seeing the Corvette go mid-engine. If a Z/28 were to happen this generation, I believe it would enter production next September/fall as a 2020 model. That aligns with C8 production.
The Corvette is going mid engine because this is where tadge wanted to take the car and not because of the Camaro.
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:43 PM   #68
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And so much misinformation about its streetability the LS7, etc. I almost didn't buy one because I'd read so much about the harshness.

However, from purely a business perspective, it failed. When cars are still sitting on lots 2 years later and being sold at $30k under sticker, that's a failure. This is one reason I don't see a new gen Z/28 coming our way.

Also, where would it be slotted? Above the ZL1 1LE? It'd have to be monster and cost $80k+. Been there, done that and failed. Between ZL1 and ZL1 1LE? Makes no sense. Between SS 1LE and ZL1? Also makes no sense.
Exactly about the "streetability". You could daily drive a Z/28 provided you avoid the rain if you still have the Trofeo's. The magazine guys make it sound like it's a death machine on the road. Far from it, and the LS7 is incredible.

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Also true. I guess what I was getting at is the Corvette is already a lighter car to begin with, and instead of going light weight route they went extreme power to make a faster car.

I just don't see a lower HP Camaro being faster than the ZLE. I know the 5th Gen Z/28 was faster than the 5th gen ZL1 but I just don't see it happening this go around. Maybe I am putting the ZLE to high on the pedestal lol
Take a 6th gen. Add a 580hp N/A LT1-variant engine that can pull to 7500 rpm. Add the exact carbon brakes from the 5th gen Z/28. Tweak the DSSV's from the 5th gen Z/28. Add carbon wheels, and gut it like they did the 5th gen Z/28. Get it around 3550lbs, and it will eat a ZL1-1LE alive at every track. Parts-bin shop the car with 5th gen parts to keep the cost in check. Build 500 of them. Keep the price at $75k.
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Old 05-04-2018, 10:01 PM   #69
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The Corvette is going mid engine because this is where tadge wanted to take the car and not because of the Camaro.
Itís where Zora Duntov wanted to take the car over 50 years ago, but GM either didnít listen, didnít care, or didnít have the resources/money every time it was brought up. GM is a business, and it seems good for business to shift the Corvette to a mid-engine layout. The Corvette engineers are happy, the Camaro engineers are happy, and the consumers are happy. However, they did start mid-engine development before the bankruptcy, so I guess the Camaro wasnít that big of a factor at that point. No matter what, the Camaro will improve greatly with the next generation thanks to the C8 Corvette.
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Old 05-04-2018, 10:18 PM   #70
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A 5.4L DOHC engine won't necessarily be lighter then the LT4 which is about 530 pounds not to mention won't necessarily produce 540BHP. The old LT5 engine was about 600 pounds so if you want them to just stick a DOHC head on the Gen V SBC then expect that amount of weight taking off a few pounds. Also GM just generally doesn't tune its engines to the point where it will make 100BHP/L which I know is what you based that about 540BHP rating on.

Here is the thing, GM can take their 6.2L motor with the head and cam package and make that 540BHP on a lighter and more compact design then a DOHC head on an LT1 engine can pull off making it the superior choice for track use.
I don’t care about hp/liter, I based it on the fact that the C8 will be introduced with an LT1 derivative expected to make around 500hp and that said derivative will be replaced by a DOHC V8 with an unknown displacement. The DOHC engine would be an improvement vs the OHV engine, so it must receive more power. 40hp is a reasonable improvement considering the possibility of a higher redline and dual injection.

The original LT5 was designed 30 years ago, and technology has changed vastly since then. GM said that Cadillac’s new Twin-Turbo V8 is lighter than the LT4, so a similar engine without the turbochargers and added cooling should be lighter than the LT4. The DOHC engines will be smoother, more efficient, and higher revving than the LT1. A heads/cam package LT1 chugs a lot of fuel, from what I understand, and it would never feel as smooth as a DOHC V8. I want that heads/cam LT1 in a Z/28, not a Stingray.
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