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Old 05-19-2022, 11:37 AM   #8681
Martinjlm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clg82 View Post
Do you feel like you get less "perceived" body roll because of the seating position in your camaro?

BTW, sounds like you got a bad ass job!! haha
Kinda why I put perceived in quotes. As I was driving the Bullitt at about 60% aggression (more than half, not close to full capability) my left-right movement in the car on curves and corners was totally unacceptable. It didnít feel like the car was body rolling, but my upper body movement was exaggerated. It felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Iíve heard that statement used a number of times in Mustang reviews and didnít want to sound cliche. But that description totally nails what I felt driving the car. Combine that with a transmission I hated and there was just no joy in driving that car.

So, to answer your question, I think that the level of body roll I perceive in the Camaro is closer to what the car actually exhibits. My point of connection is at or below the center of gravity. In my mind I think that means my body movement is more directly connected to the car movement.

Last point Iíll make in trying to explain the difference. In the Bullitt, turn the steering wheel, car turns in response. Visually no discernible shift in vertical balance of the car (hood doesnít dip lower in the direction Iím turning). Thatís a good thing. A split second later, my shoulders and upper body lean a bit in the opposite direction of the steering wheel input. THAT SUCKS! That does not happen in the GT350 or my Camaro.
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Old 05-20-2022, 12:30 AM   #8682
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Originally Posted by L99BEN View Post
No complaint by me. I'm not bothered it at all actually
Well thatís obviously good for you and good for me that I like the ZL1s lower seat height. Nothing wrong with that. Just sharing my opinion I had from my GT350(s) ownership experience and similar M6G comments about the topic. I actually looked into seeing if it could be modified to be lowered more.
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Old 05-20-2022, 06:26 AM   #8683
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Well thatís obviously good for you and good for me that I like the ZL1s lower seat height. Nothing wrong with that. Just sharing my opinion I had from my GT350(s) ownership experience and similar M6G comments about the topic. I actually looked into seeing if it could be modified to be lowered more.
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Old 05-21-2022, 04:09 PM   #8684
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Recent review of the GT500 and ZL1 reiterating similar opinions about both cars brought up in this thread

https://youtu.be/DJTKxwd4Foo
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:22 AM   #8685
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Without reading 8600 posts, I would have thought the Gt500 would be considerably faster
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:52 AM   #8686
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And in fact it's not faster. Ford didn't even have the guts to take the GT500 to "the Ring". To put it simple, whether we like it or not, this is where the performance of fast cars is measured. In fact Ford didn't have the guts to take any of their cars to "the Ring". They rely solely on the posts of some anonymous YouTubers.

So the ZL1 officially still remains the supercar killer.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:15 PM   #8687
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And in fact it's not faster.
Continuing with my thinly based views, it's my understanding, based on another thread here, that the GT500 OEM blower is a 2650. If that's true, it should be faster.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:49 PM   #8688
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Continuing with my thinly based views, it's my understanding, based on another thread here, that the GT500 OEM blower is a 2650. If that's true, it should be faster.
Ive owned both and the GT500 is and feels significantly faster in a straight-line once in the powerband. Even though the GT500 is almost 300 lbs heavier, you can clearly feel the additional 100hp compared to the ZL1.
I'm talking in-gear "sotp" feel.

GT500 is a little over a second faster 60-130 and 100-150 is 3 sec faster than the ZL1 A10.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:55 AM   #8689
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Instead of posting biased opinions ("my car is always better") I personally prefer facts. There is already an older thread that gives a lot of insight at our very own forum:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569999

Also there are several reviews like this one (covered in the above thread):

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-car-showdown/

The ZL1 accelerates faster, is faster on the track, stops better, turns better, handles better and is an overall better value for money. Admittedly the Mustang attracts the lights because they have invested heavily in Marketing. However, the Camaro is the most rewarding and confidence-inspiring to drive and this comes out in most reviews.
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Old 05-24-2022, 07:52 AM   #8690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakCamaro View Post
Instead of posting biased opinions ("my car is always better") I personally prefer facts. There is already an older thread that gives a lot of insight at our very own forum:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569999

Also there are several reviews like this one (covered in the above thread):

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-car-showdown/

The ZL1 accelerates faster, is faster on the track, stops better, turns better, handles better and is an overall better value for money. Admittedly the Mustang attracts the lights because they have invested heavily in Marketing. However, the Camaro is the most rewarding and confidence-inspiring to drive and this comes out in most reviews.
Unless you are talking about 0-60 on the street the ZL1 most definitely DOES NOT accelerate faster than the GT500. Its not a small negligible difference either. It's a difference that is tangible and is real.
BTW the GT500 0-60 is as fast or faster on a prepped track with street tires.
Ive seen as low as 1.6-1.7 60ft's for the GT500 which is what my Tesla 3 performance does (my tesla 0-60 is 3.1).

From your Car and Driver link:

"By 100 mph, though, the Ford is quicker than the Chevy by 0.3 second, and by 160 mph, it's more than five seconds quicker. Its 132-mph trap speed in the quarter is ample proof of the Mustang's power."

TBH I could care less about most the stuff/stats you've posting personally. If the ZL1 was the better car FOR/TO ME I would have kept it and saved money or sold my GT500 and went back...

BTW - Ive never once said the GT500 is better than the ZL1, Ive been saying its better FOR ME. I agree the ZL1 is the better overall bargain especially considering the ridiculous ADM the GT500 has been selling for since it's release. Comparing MSRP to MSRP the difference doesn't seem as great, considering you get the DCT, hand built motor and much larger blower in the Shelby.
My opinions are not biased and I am not brand loyal in any way. I can appreciate performance no matter the manufacturer.

This is a Camaro forum and camaro biased opinions here is to be expected which is fine.

I'd even greatly consider buying a ZL1 manual convertible in the future. Top down elevates the cramped low visibility issue for me.

The ZL1 may stop shorter but it certainly doesn't feel that way behind the wheel (compared to the standard ZL1, I've never driven the ZLE)
The ZL1 may turn better but isn't a difference I can clearly tell on the back roads I drive on. Both handle amazing and have very high limits, I dont come close to pushing these cars to their limits on public roads. I dont track my cars either.
60+ highway acceleration isn't close, the GT500 is faster, period; a metric I do care about.
It wouldn't take much for the ZL1 to be as fast as the GT500 in a straight line, but you'd have to forego warranty to get there, something I'm not willing to do.

Something tells me you've never driven a GT500 and can only post stats on paper
Put the Car and Driver down and go thoroughly drive one and you'll see the GT500 attributes aren't only "marketing".
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2016 Camaro 2SS M6
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:19 AM   #8691
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All good. Enjoy the car mate
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:13 PM   #8692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L99BEN View Post
Unless you are talking about 0-60 on the street the ZL1 most definitely DOES NOT accelerate faster than the GT500. Its not a small negligible difference either. It's a difference that is tangible and is real.
BTW the GT500 0-60 is as fast or faster on a prepped track with street tires.
Ive seen as low as 1.6-1.7 60ft's for the GT500 which is what my Tesla 3 performance does (my tesla 0-60 is 3.1).

From your Car and Driver link:

"By 100 mph, though, the Ford is quicker than the Chevy by 0.3 second, and by 160 mph, it's more than five seconds quicker. Its 132-mph trap speed in the quarter is ample proof of the Mustang's power."

TBH I could care less about most the stuff/stats you've posting personally. If the ZL1 was the better car FOR/TO ME I would have kept it and saved money or sold my GT500 and went back...

BTW - Ive never once said the GT500 is better than the ZL1, Ive been saying its better FOR ME. I agree the ZL1 is the better overall bargain especially considering the ridiculous ADM the GT500 has been selling for since it's release. Comparing MSRP to MSRP the difference doesn't seem as great, considering you get the DCT, hand built motor and much larger blower in the Shelby.
My opinions are not biased and I am not brand loyal in any way. I can appreciate performance no matter the manufacturer.

This is a Camaro forum and camaro biased opinions here is to be expected which is fine.

I'd even greatly consider buying a ZL1 manual convertible in the future. Top down elevates the cramped low visibility issue for me.

The ZL1 may stop shorter but it certainly doesn't feel that way behind the wheel (compared to the standard ZL1, I've never driven the ZLE)
The ZL1 may turn better but isn't a difference I can clearly tell on the back roads I drive on. Both handle amazing and have very high limits, I dont come close to pushing these cars to their limits on public roads. I dont track my cars either.
60+ highway acceleration isn't close, the GT500 is faster, period; a metric I do care about.
It wouldn't take much for the ZL1 to be as fast as the GT500 in a straight line, but you'd have to forego warranty to get there, something I'm not willing to do.

Something tells me you've never driven a GT500 and can only post stats on paper
Put the Car and Driver down and go thoroughly drive one and you'll see the GT500 attributes aren't only "marketing".
For the record, the LT4 in the more recent ZL1s are also hand built by one person, similar to the Predator engine. Mine has a stamped name plate on the intercooler supply pipes at the front of the supercharger; it was built by Andrea Carothers at the Performance Build Center in Bowling Green, KY. My guess is that started when the C7 Z06 went out of production, they kept making the LT4 for the ZL1 at the same plant.

Also, about the 160 mph time: I have a theory that the LT4 starts to heat soak and pull quite a bit of timing after about 12 sec. of continuous WOT due to the slightly compromised intercooler HEX positioning, so after about 130-135 mph on a stock car, the acceleration curve really falls off. The Predator doesn't have that same issue, so it continues to pull hard much longer than the LT4. If a run starts later, say at 60-70+ mph, the ZL1 will likely hang longer and the differential won't be as great.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:19 PM   #8693
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Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium View Post
For the record, the LT4 in the more recent ZL1s are also hand built by one person, similar to the Predator engine. Mine has a stamped name plate on the intercooler supply pipes at the front of the supercharger; it was built by Andrea Carothers at the Performance Build Center in Bowling Green, KY. My guess is that started when the C7 Z06 went out of production, they kept making the LT4 for the ZL1 at the same plant.

Also, about the 160 mph time: I have a theory that the LT4 starts to heat soak and pull quite a bit of timing after about 12 sec. of continuous WOT due to the slightly compromised intercooler HEX positioning, so after about 130-135 mph on a stock car, the acceleration curve really falls off. The Predator doesn't have that same issue, so it continues to pull hard much longer than the LT4. If a run starts later, say at 60-70+ mph, the ZL1 will likely hang longer and the differential won't be as great.
Didn't know about the LT4 was hand-built by one person. Good to know.

The LT4 may have that design flaw slowing it down on long pulls but the 60-130 is about a second slower as well, not a huge difference, but not exactly hanging imo. I suppose if the ZL1 got a jump it would appear to hang for a bit. I just dont think the power is there. The lighter C7Z06 isn't quite as fast as the GT500 from a roll either

BTW - Sorry if I am coming off as jerky, this is for discussion purposes.

I will say the ZL1 has a huge advantage when in comes to fixing a major powertrain issue when modded out of warranty compared to the crazy expensive GT500 powertrain.
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2019 ZL1 A10 - sold (meh)
2016 Hellcat Challenger - A8 sold but never forgotten
2016 Camaro 2SS M6
2014 Mustang GT A6
2012 Mustang GT M6 "brembo" 3.73/FBO
2012 Camaro SS L99 (Wife's)
- slow

Last edited by L99BEN; 05-25-2022 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:46 PM   #8694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L99BEN View Post
Ive owned both and the GT500 is and feels significantly faster in a straight-line once in the powerband. Even though the GT500 is almost 300 lbs heavier, you can clearly feel the additional 100hp compared to the ZL1.
I'm talking in-gear "sotp" feel.

GT500 is a little over a second faster 60-130 and 100-150 is 3 sec faster than the ZL1 A10.
I noticed you are getting a Plaid. My friend gave me a ride in his Plaid. He asked if I brought a diaper. While I held "my own", it was every bit of a roller coaster feel ride once the tires warmed up. I did miss the noise though......

Your Plaid will embarrass just about anything gas powered even with a passenger or two.

Enjoy. You may get bored with the GT500.
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