[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Meanwhile, down in "Mexico".....

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/6e050aff...ted%3A-he.html

We all did stupid shit like that when we were young , but that guy is more than old enough to know better. Really dumb.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

We all did stupid shit like that when we were young , but that guy is more than old enough to know better. Really dumb.

What's even more scary is Mississippi doesn't have the greatest roads in my opinion....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If the Mustang stays on the S550 platform then I think we'll see the end of the GT350. Why? Because I think it's safe to say that GM will be aiming the SS and SLE squarely at the GT350(R). And it'll be packing the C8 Vette's 500 HP engine...if the Vette gets it and if the trend of the Camaro getting the Vette engines continue. If the current SLE is on the heels of the GT350R, then the next Gen will beat it for sure. And probably with less HP. That will put Ford in a bind because now to stay competitive they'll have to put out a GT that can eclipse the current GT350. So bye bye GT350. That will likely piss off the GT350 fans. And having a much cheaper GT that can beat a GT350 of the same Generation would also piss off SHelby owners especially those who paid high premiums for the car for the performance.

Also will the GT500 continue for the time that the S550 is extended? What happens if we get a 7th Gen Camaro ZL1 that can beat the GT500?? I don't see any of this being a good thing for Ford. Maybe they have something like a Boss 302 or Mach 1 planned. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure we will definitely see a 7th Gen Camaro and it will outperform the current Gen in every way. I think the next Gen SS might even hang with the current ZL1. So if Ford stays on the S550 platform then they'll have to make some bold moves and I think one of those moves might involve axe-ing the roadblock that is the GT350 finally.

Again going back to the video that surfaced a few weeks ago from the Ford event, whoever the rep from Ford was said the 2019 GT350 and 2020 GT500 would be in showrooms at the same time. that tells me the 19 GT350 is it for the GT350.

Now I agree with you that when Camaro gets the rumored LT2 it will surpass the GT350R. Now what I would expect to happen is the Bullitt engine will become the standard GT engine and the Mustang would then be fairly close to the rumored LT2 Camaro.

what I don't think Ford will care about is pissing of 350 owners. It's on to the next model year for Ford. Once they have your money they don't care if the next model year is light years better.

Example 2010 GT and V6 compared to 2011 GT and V6
2009 GT500KR was at the time the top of the line Shelby and in 2010 it became the standard GT500. 2011 GT500 switched up I believe the block and some other stuff to then top that and we all know what happened with the 2013 GT500.

08/09 Bullitt engine became the 2010 GT.

Ford doesn't care about making something drastically better the next model year, its tough luck for the previous model year people.

And yes I get you are saying that a GT outperforming the GT350 is a bad look and well I agree with you, but the 350 served its purpose and because of the delays to the 500 soldiered on longer than it should have. IMO they should have put the 350 out to pasture in 17.

as far as a next gen ZL1 outperforming the GT500 I am sure it will and I sure ford will do some tweaks but not sure they would be able to full respond.

[Scottyz]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

What does that even mean?

Rwhp numbers seemed low. Trap speeds also low.
Stingy Dyno I can see getting low rwhp numbers. That happens and we all know dyno operators can make funky numbers come out. Trap speed typically tells the truth. And the trap speeds were low so to me the dynos likely weren’t wrong by much.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by Scottyz

Rwhp numbers seemed low. Trap speeds also low.
Stingy Dyno I can see getting low rwhp numbers. That happens and we all know dyno operators can make funky numbers come out. Trap speed typically tells the truth. And the trap speeds were low so to me the dynos likely weren’t wrong by much.

Curious which regions had the detuned Gt500s?

Hope I didn’t get one.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by Scottyz

Rwhp numbers seemed low. Trap speeds also low.
Stingy Dyno I can see getting low rwhp numbers. That happens and we all know dyno operators can make funky numbers come out. Trap speed typically tells the truth. And the trap speeds were low so to me the dynos likely weren’t wrong by much.

They dyno +-575whp bone stock...exactly as expected and trapped +-125 ... right in line with power/weight.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next Gen models for both Ford and Chevy, I wonder how much further they can push these rwd platforms without spending big dollars to do it. Further weight reductions and increased hp will be needed all of which I think at this point in the game will be very costly, at some point they will have to level off on performance and just include styling changes.

Well the report was that Ford might be pushing the S550 another few years. That is what my comments were based off of.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Again going back to the video that surfaced a few weeks ago from the Ford event, whoever the rep from Ford was said the 2019 GT350 and 2020 GT500 would be in showrooms at the same time. that tells me the 19 GT350 is it for the GT350.

Now I agree with you that when Camaro gets the rumored LT2 it will surpass the GT350R. Now what I would expect to happen is the Bullitt engine will become the standard GT engine and the Mustang would then be fairly close to the rumored LT2 Camaro.

what I don't think Ford will care about is pissing of 350 owners. It's on to the next model year for Ford. Once they have your money they don't care if the next model year is light years better.

Example 2010 GT and V6 compared to 2011 GT and V6
2009 GT500KR was at the time the top of the line Shelby and in 2010 it became the standard GT500. 2011 GT500 switched up I believe the block and some other stuff to then top that and we all know what happened with the 2013 GT500.

08/09 Bullitt engine became the 2010 GT.

Ford doesn't care about making something drastically better the next model year, its tough luck for the previous model year people.

And yes I get you are saying that a GT outperforming the GT350 is a bad look and well I agree with you, but the 350 served its purpose and because of the delays to the 500 soldiered on longer than it should have. IMO they should have put the 350 out to pasture in 17.

as far as a next gen ZL1 outperforming the GT500 I am sure it will and I sure ford will do some tweaks but not sure they would be able to full respond.

Then that is a bad thing if Ford has no feelings for their buyers. I mean, how do you not care about people who believed in the GT350 strongly enough that they were willing to pay over MSRP for one? To simply not care without a good reason is not good man. If they have to push the GT to outperform the GT350 just to stay competitive, and if they explain that, then I can see your point. But that would not be a non-caring stance. If they just said "screw you", then that's a damn shame. And regardless of their stance, people are still going to be pissed. In Ford's defense, they might have to because that is just how weak the GT350 is. Dodge made a 797 HP Redeye and didn't piss off Demon owners because the Demon still has certain features, is a limited run, and still outperforms the RE. If a future model, let's say 5 years from now does outperform the Demon, then not many people will be pissed. The GM Z cars are soo far ahead that it'll take the next Gen to match them and even then probably only something like a Vette to match the current ZL1. Nobody will be upset. But if the GT, which already beats the GT350 in a straight line, also beats the GT350 around a track, in the same Gen then that is just plain miserable. I think Ford has no choice but you can't deny that it would be a massive blow for those who have GT350s.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

They dyno +-575whp bone stock...exactly as expected and trapped +-125 ... right in line with power/weight.

I think he is alluding to the fact that Mustangs only perform well when ideal conditions are present. Out here in NJ I was excited to see GT500s run but they never did anything impressive.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think he is alluding to the fact that Mustangs only perform well when ideal conditions are present. Out here in NJ I was excited to see GT500s run but they never did anything impressive.

Yeah ok, well that ain’t what he said. He mentioned dyno figures and trap speeds which are readily available all over this new information source known as the World Wide Web.

And as far as cars performing well under x conditions... I’ve spent 30yrs at race tracks across the country and I’ve seen every conceivable car perform horrendously in the hands of owners, but that has zero to do with the cars capabilities and everything to do with the person behind the wheel.

I see you own a M6 Hellcat, have you ever run it down the track?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well the report was that Ford might be pushing the S550 another few years. That is what my comments were based off of.

Then that is a bad thing if Ford has no feelings for their buyers. I mean, how do you not care about people who believed in the GT350 strongly enough that they were willing to pay over MSRP for one? To simply not care without a good reason is not good man. If they have to push the GT to outperform the GT350 just to stay competitive, and if they explain that, then I can see your point. But that would not be a non-caring stance. If they just said "screw you", then that's a damn shame. And regardless of their stance, people are still going to be pissed. In Ford's defense, they might have to because that is just how weak the GT350 is. Dodge made a 797 HP Redeye and didn't piss off Demon owners because the Demon still has certain features, is a limited run, and still outperforms the RE. If a future model, let's say 5 years from now does outperform the Demon, then not many people will be pissed. The GM Z cars are soo far ahead that it'll take the next Gen to match them and even then probably only something like a Vette to match the current ZL1. Nobody will be upset. But if the GT, which already beats the GT350 in a straight line, also beats the GT350 around a track, in the same Gen then that is just plain miserable. I think Ford has no choice but you can't deny that it would be a massive blow for those who have GT350s.

Like i said though, they already got their money. They don't care that people paid over MSRP because they(Ford) didn't see a dime of that money. Ford has continuously updated stuff in each gen so I guess I am either numb to it expect it or just don't care because I learned long ago there will always be someone faster.

Now if the GT full out outperformed the GT350 in every category (the 350/R is still faster around a track albeit slightly) in the same modle year yeah, that would be a bad look. But if it is one or two model years down the road then I personally don't see it as a big deal. Because by then the GT500 will have taken the mantle of ultimate track Mustang, the GT will be able to be a better version of itself. that to me is the key, when the GT becomes better overall than the GT350.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Like i said though, they already got their money. They don't care that people paid over MSRP because they(Ford) didn't see a dime of that money. Ford has continuously updated stuff in each gen so I guess I am either numb to it expect it or just don't care because I learned long ago there will always be someone faster.

Now if the GT full out outperformed the GT350 in every category (the 350/R is still faster around a track albeit slightly) in the same modle year yeah, that would be a bad look. But if it is one or two model years down the road then I personally don't see it as a big deal. Because by then the GT500 will have taken the mantle of ultimate track Mustang, the GT will be able to be a better version of itself. that to me is the key, when the GT becomes better overall than the GT350.

Gotta keep them chasing the next best thing.

[BlaqWhole]

Why would you defend that? You know you're the consumer right? You have nothing to benefit from Ford doing that. So why are you ok with it? Are you that blindly loyal to Ford that you're ok with them taking advantage of their customers? Because that just sounds weird.

[Ethanolic]

How is a company constantly improving their product a bad thing for the consumer? If you think your new hot ride is going to be the new hot ride for more than a couple years in today’s car market, you’re kidding yourself.

Manufacturers are in the business of selling new cars not protecting previous owners egos

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

How is a company constantly improving their product a bad thing for the consumer? If you think your new hot ride is going to be the new hot ride for more than a couple years in today’s car market, you’re kidding yourself.

Manufacturers are in the business of selling new cars not protecting previous owners egos

It can become a bad thing if a 32k 2020 GT is a better performance car than a 2019 70k GT350. I know several people who owned a 2010 Mustang and were pretty upset the 2011 had 100 more horsepower. Or the people who owned a 500 hp 2012 GT500 to see the 13 get 662. Typically those types of gains are in the next generation not the same one.