[genxer]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Also, manufacturers have found that people often don't charge their PHEVs, so they often run around on just ICE. But since the PHEVs are heavier than the ICE only counterparts, they get worse gas mileage than just a plain old ICE car. So, to get the environmental benefits out of a PHEV, they need to be charged regularly and driven around electric only.

So what? PHEV people own their vehicle, have their own judgement.

I liked the Volt (and had previously considered buying). It was off the target in conception. A cheaper battery, and overall, that leaves interstate speeds to the engine would've been better. On second thought, maybe too small a niche after just a hybrid.

A PHEV with almost no battery range, just EV acceleration would be pretty
interesting, for someone wealthy though.

In an opposite way, news about EV heat pumps is boring. Just use a propane auxillary heater. Screw it.

[Martinjlm]

I am at the Advanced Clean Transportation Expo.. The final press conference on Tuesday was from a company that is involved in working with businesses to design, install and monitor charging stations to support their fleets. This company currently has 80,000 chargers in operation globally with a target for 500,000. They’re working with several medium and heavy duty truck manufacturers (Volvo Trucks, Navistar), Uber, and large fleets like Penske.

You know the company. Shell

[shaffe]

That's smart on Shells part.

[RagingHawk]

I don't understand what's going on. So we went from a 2040 deadline for ice vehicle sales, then dropped it down to 2035. Then had a pandemic where costs of living and everything else are going up. Automakers can't produce enough cars, let alone EV ones. Materials for EV production will rise in cost, especially battery costs. Huge pressure on gas industry causing prices to go high way earlier than necessary. Seems like governments want everyone to purchase an EV by 2025. An expensive and horrible value EV. I did not do that an picked a compact sedan that averages 35 mpg combined. And weighs less than 3,000 lbs. Yet I'm being penalized with high gas prices instead of huge suv and truck owners ,lol.

This is the worst timing ever to try to rapidly transition to EV. It's supposed to be a phased and timely process. Instead it's a disgusting and forced approach on consumers, and gas prices will remain at $5 a gallon and reach $7 a gallon by 2025. They will tell me Kia Forte is harmful to the environment and I need to buy a 40k EV that cuts range in winter, and has 300 miles of range. While my 22k compact sedan has over 400 miles of a range on a tank. And it's got more features inside and out than these EVs.

Big blunder by Biden. He did good with the infrastructure bill but not this. So we have a party trying to shove EV down our throats and concerned with trans 'rights' , and another party that worships a man and is concerned with culture wars. What a stupid party system we have. We need moderates , sensible people in the middle.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Is that a statement of fact or an opinion of what is to come? I can assure you that automakers are not prevented from developing ICE vehicles. Those who have very publicly stated that they are ending ICE development are doing so of their own volition. They are making it central to their product strategy.

Ban on new ice sales means ban on ice development. Not today but several years from now.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Ban on new ice sales means ban on ice development. Not today but several years from now.

There are now legislated bans on ICE sales in North America. Only China at this point and some European countries (Scandinavia for example) are working the legislation through. I stand corrected. Legislated bans are already in place in most Scandinavian countries (Norway [2025], Denmark [2035], Iceland [2030]). It’s not clear to me if the UK legislation [2035] is pending or approved.

In the US, governors of several states have issued Executive Orders directing their regulatory agencies to identify what it would take to institute such a ban. Thing is, governors don’t write law and EOs don’t have the force of law behind them. Legislatures, not governors, write laws and no US state legislators have picked up a pen yet. On the flip side, vehicle manufacturers are already aligning their vehicle development plans to be well ahead of where the states would be if they were to institute such a ban.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by genxer

In an opposite way, news about EV heat pumps is boring. Just use a propane auxillary heater. Screw it.

Will have to disagree here. Heat pump has a high coefficient of performance so basically, less electricity is needed to generate the same amount of heat compared to a board heater.

The only thing is that the coefficient of performance tends to drop with temperature, but at worst, it will just match resistive heating.

Some systems could also implement it into the existing A/C system since heat pumps are pretty much just A/C in reverse. You just need to flip the evaporator and condenser around, along with controlling some valves.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Will have to disagree here. Heat pump has a high coefficient of performance so basically, less electricity is needed to generate the same amount of heat compared to a board heater.

The only thing is that the coefficient of performance tends to drop with temperature, but at worst, it will just match resistive heating.

Some systems could also implement it into the existing A/C system since heat pumps are pretty much just A/C in reverse. You just need to flip the evaporator and condenser around, along with controlling some valves.

Weight or mass and or its distribution are big factors, made worse for BEV by the battery's energy density, magnets & coils.

My general thinking is to reject nuance that serves the grand touring/luxury mindset of people that buy expensive vehicles. Heat pump gets filed here.

The Taycan was on an okay path with a two speed gearbox, and not as much range weight.

Shrink the motors for the desired power until the coils start to fry and need gearing for lower speed/cooling flow.

Someone posted a joke meme with a Tesla towing a fuming generator. Think about it and it's not.

Build a generator powered charging rig/trailer that can swap between multiple battery packs. Run a lighter pack at track for the full voltage curve and swap it. Kill their cycle lives and buy replacements. Every year or every few.

Also ignoring unconventional ideas that might make an EV faster. Like tandem seating, or single seat.

I want an unapologetic gasoline Camaro to stay.
The EV topic is getting tired for me. Sorry for the delayed reply.

[90503]

Ran across this food for thought....

AAA says using the heater in cold weather cuts battery range by 40 percent...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/h...-battery-life/

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by 90503

Ran across this food for thought....

AAA says using the heater in cold weather cuts battery range by 40 percent...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/h...-battery-life/

Depends on the HVAC system the EV uses. If they use a resistive heater, then yup up to 40% reduction can be experienced in the winter.

If the EV uses a heat pump, does improve to a ~20% hit.

Certainly something to take into account in the decision making.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by genxer

My general thinking is to reject nuance that serves the grand touring/luxury mindset of people that buy expensive vehicles. Heat pump gets filed her.

Not really. If you can integrate a heat pump into A/C, then that could mean less complexity and less weight.

It's like how some people think hybrid cars are super complex, but with some hybrid cars, you forego the need for a transmission, starter, and alternator, so there are some simplifications going on at the same time.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Not really. If you can integrate a heat pump into A/C, then that could mean less complexity and less weight.

It's like how some people think hybrid cars are super complex, but with some hybrid cars, you forego the need for a transmission, starter, and alternator, so there are some simplifications going on at the same time.

My frame of reference is no A/C... though I like most of your 2nd example.

Where we differ is, I think many people pick the luxury aspect of a vehicle first, to a detriment. Whether or not they'll admit to whatever degree.

The best driver I know drives around town with a dog box and a heavy mechanical clutch. I have to draw the line easily before that. (But I'd love a next-gen stick with a combination starter/generator/dog-synchronizer, with a dogleg 1st gear H pattern shift.) The best driver I tangentially know, drives a very spartan LS swapped early Miata, (and not the easy choice 'Vette ).

[mariojas]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Not really. If you can integrate a heat pump into A/C, then that could mean less complexity and less weight.

It's like how some people think hybrid cars are super complex, but with some hybrid cars, you forego the need for a transmission, starter, and alternator, so there are some simplifications going on at the same time.

AC is a heat pump... just one way heat pump. It's just the direction of flow which will determine if you are cooling or heating the cabin. Add special valve to your AC (and control for it) and you have got yourself a "heat pump".

People are so used to combustion waste called heating in ICE that it's sooo weird to "pay" to have heat I know, I know... ICE have it for free, so why switch. If you aren't ready - don't. If I wouldn't be so obsessed with V8s I would switch now - it's good enough already, especially with current gas prices, where you need to do two transactions to fill all the way up

[Crushin_LT1]

I guess the issue here is we are all speaking as people who can afford multiple vehicles and especially high performance vehicles.

Not everyone is wealthy enough for this, which is something policy makers decidedly ignore. After all, a poor person won't donate to your campaign or take you out on junkets, why should their opinions and lives matter?