[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I have not. I'll take a look at it when I get a chance. On the flip side, my company has a whole division of economists who look at the world from a global view all the way down to zip code levels of detail. The general consensus amongst them is that in order for the planet to avoid drastic and irreversible damage, all regions need to reduce carbon emissions sooner than later. Sure there are individual differences in opinion on how to achieve that, but the need to reduce carbon emissions is practically unanimous.

I’m not sure why anyone would care what an economist has to say about global warning. I stay pretty current and climate science isn’t a part of of the field.

It’s reassuring to know that it takes a biologist to define what a woman is but everyone and their brother is just certain about global warming. It’s settled science, lol.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I’m not sure why anyone would care what an economist has to say about global warning. I stay pretty current and climate science isn’t a part of of the field.

It’s reassuring to know that it takes a biologist to define what a woman is but everyone and their brother is just certain about global warming. It’s settled science, lol.

Waaay off thread topic but apparently needs explanation. We have an entire business unit referred to as Economics and Country Risk. They examine economic, climate, political, and natural resource issues in all parts of the globe and provide details and analysis on what this means in terms of financial, environmental, and political impact. That includes analysis of the inter-related aspects of all of these factors.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Have they mentioned China? According to Peter Zeihan, China is ABSOLUTELY screwed and might not even make it to 2030 in its current form as a nation state. Demographics, energy, imports, deglobalization, economics, and even food production looks TERRIBLE for them in the next several years. Not even to mention covid and lockdowns.

ECR has people on the ground in China, so yes.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

If you live in an urban environment and/or your driving is limited to a relatively short daily commute with access to chargers an EV might be just the thing, particularly if you see a car as nothing more than a means to get from A to B.

Simply upgrading isn't cheap. I'm in the process of finishing my basement, getting a 125 amp subpanel run to my basement cost me $600 and the only reason it was so cheap was because the guy who owns the company is a good friend. If not for that it would have been closer to $1,500.

Going from the meter to the box at 200+ amps, with potential dry wall work on top of that. Ain't going to be cheap. I can afford it, if I wanted to, which I don't. What about the family trying to get by on $50K a year in our current price environment?

Several of the fairly callous remarks posted recently sound a lot like Marie Antoinette saying 'let them eat cake'.

How about tree huggers keep hugging trees and driving sewing machines and leave the rest of us alone while we drive what we want to?

if you were referring to my remark about the tent,try being newly retired and living on 24k a year.prices have about doubled on gas and food goes up every week.i really dont see how young families paying rent or mortgage can make it at all.my daughter and her husband have 4 kids,both are working good jobs,and the government hands them so much in food stamps and other benefits its obscene.they manage to eat out 3-4 times weekly and spend between $100-150 per time...WTF?

[Wyzz Kydd]

The most revealing thing on this thread is the consistent personal attacks and mocking from the left. It’s how they operate. No reasoned discourse, just snark from people who think they’re smarter than everyone else.

[ChevyRules]

Think this thread has run its course if it has devolved into typical right vs left remarks....

Especially since you know this site doesn't allow politics......

I believe we should be mature enough to be able to discuss EV's without getting political......

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Think this thread has run its course if it has devolved into typical right vs left remarks....

Especially since you know this site doesn't allow politics......

I believe we should be mature enough to be able to discuss EV's without getting political......

you would think so,but it does get in there.talking straight up mechanics of the two is pretty easy without involving politics,but then the situation gets complicated.much as i think an electrified 6th gen camaro would be cool my 5th gen only has 75k miles on it.i am retired and replacing such a nice car with low miles on it is not really economically feasible for me.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

you would think so,but it does get in there.talking straight up mechanics of the two is pretty easy without involving politics,but then the situation gets complicated.much as i think an electrified 6th gen camaro would be cool my 5th gen only has 75k miles on it.i am retired and replacing such a nice car with low miles on it is not really economically feasible for me.

Talking about the challenges of EV's is fine too. That will require some surface political discussion, but going full dive can be avoided. None of this the left can only attack people they disagree with, tree huggers comments, right uses fear to prevent progress, forcing EV's down our throat, etc.

As I said in an earlier comment, I should be able to mention I enjoyed visiting XXX place without the other person I am talking to going straight to a political statement about XXX place. I am getting sick of it.

[redcoats1976]

i can understand that.it seems that almost anything a person says these days can be taken out of context,or stretched to mean something that was not intended by an opposing viewpoint.i am the guy that sees a tesla and thinks..."how neat,i wonder what driving one would be like?" but its not practical for me at this point in time.

[arpad_m]

This isn't even a thread anymore, because a number of posts were selectively deleted and they weren't fully political, or at least some points worth considering were made.

As to visiting place x without drawing unwanted political commentary, it's very sad indeed, I wish this weren't the case and I myself do try not to derail conversations this way.

On the other hand, not talking about pressing issues first and then doing something about them is untenable, no matter the forum. It's a bit like when you want to discuss crown moldings and ornaments while a house is burning and then being disappointed that the other person just keeps trying to address the ongoing fire.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

you would think so,but it does get in there.talking straight up mechanics of the two is pretty easy without involving politics,but then the situation gets complicated.much as i think an electrified 6th gen camaro would be cool my 5th gen only has 75k miles on it.i am retired and replacing such a nice car with low miles on it is not really economically feasible for me.

At the pace that BEVs are rolling out, if you never want to buy a BEV between now and the time that you are looking up at the grass you wouldn’t have to. By 2030 BEVs will be about 30% of the new vehicles sold in the US. That means about 70% will be some form of ICE. By 2035 BEV will be close to 50%, meaning around 50% of the new vehicles available for purchase will be ICE-based. We’ll be way into the 2050’s before BEVs are the only vehicles available for purchase. If my kids haven’t taken my keys from me by then I’ll likely be driving something electric and something with a V8.

The big issue here is that cars like the ones we drive and talk about on this forum probably won’t make it to 2030. So find the one you love now. Cherish it and drive it until the day that you can’t drive anymore.

When it comes to vehicles in operation we’ll be well on the other side of 2050 before there are as many BEVs on the road as ICE, so fuel and service support for ICE vehicles will continue, just at reduced levels. We can still find service support for manual transmission vehicles even though they are well below 10% of the vehicles on the road today. Similar situation for ICE vehicles for at least the next 4 or 5 decades, maybe longer.

[wavsine]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The big issue here is that cars like the ones we drive and talk about on this forum probably won’t make it to 2030. So find the one you love now. Cherish it and drive it until the day that you can’t drive anymore.

^This is what I plan to do.

As much as my posts appear to reflect negative views of EV, the truth is I am not optimistic or pessimistic. I am pragmatic.

I was an early advocate of EV automobiles dating back to 1996 with Horlacher AG. The concept was a small, efficient electric vehicle. Imagine my disgust when they started throwing batteries in huge sport-ute hybrids. Then Musk comes along with the S, an unaffordable tank with horrible resale value.

When you look around you and see the seas of apartment dwellers that will likely never have access to level 2 charging at home or run an extension cord with associated voltage drop out their window to trickle charge their EV... or wait in a long line while people top up their EV at a local charging station (average time 30 to 45 minutes each)

I have already mentioned the antiquated electrical grid and the fact that the money is simply not there to upgrade it. My daughter just wrote a white paper on how it actually benefits grid operators not to upgrade. And Texas and California asking people to scale back their electrical usage with our existing demand.

EVs work great right now for those with a home with 240 volt charger and perhaps a second car with ICE power for road trips. It's when you try to scale this up to the Nirvana future being proposed for the masses that you will have an untenable scenario. Pragmatically, it's not going to work folks.

[redcoats1976]

i think you have to add "not with the present technology" to the end of wavsines last sentence.in 100 years the attitude towards ICE cars may be the same as our attitude towards the horse and buggy today.quaint,but slow and instead of road apples they will leave CO2 deposits.just as not everyone wanted to run out and buy the original model T,not everyone will switch to electric right away.ironically this is a saving grace for EVs as it will take time to allow the technology to mature and the charging stations show up en masse.