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Old 05-17-2022, 09:37 AM   #519
ChevyRules

 
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Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
Ya... EV choice right now is really black and white for most people. (Love or Hate). It seems "to me" that all though many people are not against it, it's simply not for them. (Like Me). I don't care if auto makers want to produce EVs and I could careless who buys one. I however will not be jumping into the EV market because for me, it isn't worth the investment. (Well it's not even technically an investment) The EV depreciates just like any other auto. Adding the charger to my home/garage maybe an investment as I may recoup that cost when selling. That's yet to be determined. My wife and I have been looking at homes now for over a year. Not one house we've gone through (many of them brand new ) have EV charger capabilities in them.

You are also right in the fact that for many (not all) people... an auto choice is an extension of them, their personality. If I am not turning around looking at my car when I park and walk away from it... I'm simply not buying it. There is no EV available right now that does that for me. Then the cost on top of it to get into it. Yep.. Not happening.
If you do your fair research with an open mind when it comes to, " is an EV right for me?" that is all that can be asked for.

I only interject in the EV discussion to clear up any misconceptions I see about EV's( charge times, management, etc). I am in no way trying to get people to switch or convince them EV's are better than ICE or whatever. I am the same way. I am a car freak. If I don't turn around to look my car after parking it and walking away, it isn't a car that I like. I always looked at the Camaro when I walked away and I turn around to look at my Model 3. I love both cars, different reasons of course and I miss the Camaro, but I love my Model 3 and 100% don't regret the decision.

But, an EV works for me and what I need a car for right now. My daily commute is around 60 miles. I am able to charge at home right now. And anywhere I would see needing to road trip with it, there are plenty of superchargers around to stop at if I need to.

And EV won't work for everyone right now. If you tow, go on regular road trips, etc then yeah an ICE vehicle is better suited right now. But what really gets me agitated a bit is the attitude that EV's have to be boring and only an ICE Camaro is capable of being fun. There is nothing stopping an EV from being good at cornering at a track. At the end of the day, they are setup like any other car. It just needs the suspension and chassis. Yes it will lack the sound and rowing of gears and that certainly adds to the driving experience, but an EV doesn't have to be a Prius. There will be boring EV's like there are boring ICE vehicles.

Being closed minded is not good. Everyone has taste and preferences, but don't develop a bad attitude due to them.

Last edited by ChevyRules; 05-17-2022 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 05-17-2022, 11:53 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
Ya... EV choice right now is really black and white for most people. (Love or Hate). It seems "to me" that all though many people are not against it, it's simply not for them. (Like Me). I don't care if auto makers want to produce EVs and I could careless who buys one. I however will not be jumping into the EV market because for me, it isn't worth the investment. (Well it's not even technically an investment) The EV depreciates just like any other auto. Adding the charger to my home/garage maybe an investment as I may recoup that cost when selling. That's yet to be determined. My wife and I have been looking at homes now for over a year. Not one house we've gone through (many of them brand new ) have EV charger capabilities in them.

You are also right in the fact that for many (not all) people... an auto choice is an extension of them, their personality. If I am not turning around looking at my car when I park and walk away from it... I'm simply not buying it. There is no EV available right now that does that for me. Then the cost on top of it to get into it. Yep.. Not happening.

One thing you have to consider, how well was the infrastructure in place for gasoline when the automobile first arrived on the scene? If you told me that we had "new technology" that allowed vehicles to run for 200-300 miles on a liquid, but that in order to travel those distances, we'd have to truck this liquid to these locations across the nation and then we'd have to store this liquid in our own vehicles and oh by the way this liquid is extremely flammable, btw, how many people would be like, "oh hell no!". I feel like Doc Brown, "no no Marty, you're just not thinking 4th dimensional!" The transition will happen, it's not going to happen overnight, which is a good thing, but we'll eventually get there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wavsine View Post
Tesla fast charging in my garage while my family sleeps?

You know you park a vehicle in the garage with a combustible fluid inside the tank all the time, right? You're just falling for the typical media hype, kind of like the story about the autonomous car that ran over a "jogger". Around the same time that story was making the rounds, how many people were killed with a human driver behind the wheel? I used to live in a really old house that still had aluminum wiring. I'm sure if I had a Tesla fast charger that the house would've gone up in smoke. Not sure how I can put the blame on the fast charger.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:04 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by TXCSSU View Post
One thing you have to consider, how well was the infrastructure in place for gasoline when the automobile first arrived on the scene? If you told me that we had "new technology" that allowed vehicles to run for 200-300 miles on a liquid, but that in order to travel those distances, we'd have to truck this liquid to these locations across the nation and then we'd have to store this liquid in our own vehicles and oh by the way this liquid is extremely flammable, btw, how many people would be like, "oh hell no!". I feel like Doc Brown, "no no Marty, you're just not thinking 4th dimensional!" The transition will happen, it's not going to happen overnight, which is a good thing, but we'll eventually get there.
Well, respectfully I disagree with that comparison. When automobiles came onto the scene people were traveling by horse & buggy. The invention of the automobile changed everything about how we traveled and how we got product around. EV is not changing that. EV is not changing how I get from point A to point B. It's not improving my drive time.(in fact in many cases it's making it worse). It's not a real comparison. Horses to Automobile is not the same as ICE to EV. The infrastructure (gas stations, paved roads... etc) all made everyone's life (except the Amish) better. EV's are not doing that. We are told it's making the environment better...( but that's only what we are told).

I think this is one of the hardest selling points of EVs. People don't see how it makes their life easier or better.

I'm on a few different forums and every one of those forums EV threads (like this) get created every month (like on here). Every one of those threads just like this one simply rinse and repeat the same discussion points. I normally refrain from getting involved in the conversations because frankly it's just the same stuff over and over... So... I'm going to check out of this one now too...

Happy EV talks...!
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:31 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyRules View Post
If you do your fair research with an open mind when it comes to, " is an EV right for me?" that is all that can be asked for.

I only interject in the EV discussion to clear up any misconceptions I see about EV's( charge times, management, etc). I am in no way trying to get people to switch or convince them EV's are better than ICE or whatever. I am the same way. I am a car freak. If I don't turn around to look my car after parking it and walking away, it isn't a car that I like. I always looked at the Camaro when I walked away and I turn around to look at my Model 3. I love both cars, different reasons of course and I miss the Camaro, but I love my Model 3 and 100% don't regret the decision.

But, an EV works for me and what I need a car for right now. My daily commute is around 60 miles. I am able to charge at home right now. And anywhere I would see needing to road trip with it, there are plenty of superchargers around to stop at if I need to.

And EV won't work for everyone right now. If you tow, go on regular road trips, etc then yeah an ICE vehicle is better suited right now. But what really gets me agitated a bit is the attitude that EV's have to be boring and only an ICE Camaro is capable of being fun. There is nothing stopping an EV from being good at cornering at a track. At the end of the way, they are setup like any other car. It just needs the suspension and chassis. Yes it will lack the sound and rowing of gears and that certainly adds to the driving experience, but an EV doesn't have to be a Prius. There will be boring EV's like there are boring ICE vehicles.

Being closed minded is not good. Everyone has taste and preferences, but don't develop a bad attitude due to them.
How dare you be so woke. /s

Also, I like your perfectly objective perspective. Alas, asking people to view something that has been needlessly politicized so heavily with an open mind is nigh impossible. Why change when I can so easily confirm my biases?!
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:33 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
Well, respectfully I disagree with that comparison. When automobiles came onto the scene people were traveling by horse & buggy. The invention of the automobile changed everything about how we traveled and how we got product around. EV is not changing that. EV is not changing how I get from point A to point B. It's not improving my drive time.(in fact in many cases it's making it worse). It's not a real comparison. Horses to Automobile is not the same as ICE to EV. The infrastructure (gas stations, paved roads... etc) all made everyone's life (except the Amish) better. EV's are not doing that. We are told it's making the environment better...( but that's only what we are told).

I think this is one of the hardest selling points of EVs. People don't see how it makes their life easier or better.
I definitely agree with this. But it's important to say this: "That is OK!"

There's nothing wrong with the people who simply don't feel an EV (right now) is an improvement in their life.

I firmly agree that everyone has their "point" where an EV will suddenly be an improvement for them, and their view will change. But politicizing them and making your choice based on that is just full-on Ape Brain. And that is for both sides.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:36 PM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
Well, respectfully I disagree with that comparison. When automobiles came onto the scene people were traveling by horse & buggy. The invention of the automobile changed everything about how we traveled and how we got product around. EV is not changing that. EV is not changing how I get from point A to point B. It's not improving my drive time.(in fact in many cases it's making it worse). It's not a real comparison. Horses to Automobile is not the same as ICE to EV. The infrastructure (gas stations, paved roads... etc) all made everyone's life (except the Amish) better. EV's are not doing that. We are told it's making the environment better...( but that's only what we are told).

I think this is one of the hardest selling points of EVs. People don't see how it makes their life easier or better.

I'm on a few different forums and every one of those forums EV threads (like this) get created every month (like on here). Every one of those threads just like this one simply rinse and repeat the same discussion points. I normally refrain from getting involved in the conversations because frankly it's just the same stuff over and over... So... I'm going to check out of this one now too...

Happy EV talks...!
FWIW, I own both a ZL1 and Tesla Model 3. Here is what I like and probably most will appreciate about EVs. For enthusiast like us the ideal situation is EV for daily driving and performance ICE vehicle for the track and fun.

Benefits of EV

1. Lower operating cost - Fuel, oil changes, brake pads. No tune-ups services, etc. Just tires and washer fluid.
2. No need to warm it up. Maybe tires a little bit but the EV traction control keep you safe.
3. No concerns about wasting fuel wear and tear when idling a lot. I sometimes have to sit and wait for my kids in the car for extended periods and if I am in the ZL1 I am not going to idle it for 30 minutes and waste fuel. In the EV, AC is cranked and you barely use any energy when at a stop.
4. Once you get over the initial cost of a charging outlet at home, it is actually more convenient than going to a gas station. I am always in a line at Costco for gas but in the EV I just plug in in the evening and always leave with a full tank of electrons in the morning. For longer trips where you need to charge at a public location it is doable but more inconvenient.
5. The Tesla tech is really good and OTA software updates help address and software issues.
6. Instant torque is great for daily driving and navigating

ZL1
1. True visceral experience with all the noises, vibrations, tire spin, gauges, driving position, seats, etc.
2. Bigger smile when driving.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:42 PM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
Well, respectfully I disagree with that comparison. When automobiles came onto the scene people were traveling by horse & buggy. The invention of the automobile changed everything about how we traveled and how we got product around. EV is not changing that. EV is not changing how I get from point A to point B. It's not improving my drive time.(in fact in many cases it's making it worse). It's not a real comparison. Horses to Automobile is not the same as ICE to EV. The infrastructure (gas stations, paved roads... etc) all made everyone's life (except the Amish) better. EV's are not doing that. We are told it's making the environment better...( but that's only what we are told).

I think this is one of the hardest selling points of EVs. People don't see how it makes their life easier or better.

I'm on a few different forums and every one of those forums EV threads (like this) get created every month (like on here). Every one of those threads just like this one simply rinse and repeat the same discussion points. I normally refrain from getting involved in the conversations because frankly it's just the same stuff over and over... So... I'm going to check out of this one now too...

Happy EV talks...!


Right, the transition from horse n buggy to automobile vs the transition from ICE vehicles to EV vehicles isn't that drastic a change, is my point. I saw somewhere that they were even considering highways that charged your vehicle as you drove on them. I'm sure that's going to be interesting for people with pacemakers, granted I don't like the idea of them on the road to begin with.

I guess my biggest point is that we'll slowly transition and it's not going to be the Armageddon that everyone insists it will be. Sure there are going to be some growing pains, but it's not going to be nearly as bad as the horse n buggy to automobile transition was. I wonder how the horse n buggy diehards argued against cars, would've been interesting, "you mean I have to get outside and crank that thing in front? I don't have to do that with ole Nelly here, just feed her a carrot and have a trough of water for her!". As much as I love the visceral sounds of my Camaro, I don't see the industry keeping around the ICE powered car just because people love the sound. Hell, I loved the sound of old analog audio, but everything has gone digital. Sure records are popular with the kids again, but progress doesn't really wait on anyone.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:16 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
Well, respectfully I disagree with that comparison. When automobiles came onto the scene people were traveling by horse & buggy. The invention of the automobile changed everything about how we traveled and how we got product around. EV is not changing that. EV is not changing how I get from point A to point B. It's not improving my drive time.(in fact in many cases it's making it worse). It's not a real comparison. Horses to Automobile is not the same as ICE to EV. The infrastructure (gas stations, paved roads... etc) all made everyone's life (except the Amish) better. EV's are not doing that. We are told it's making the environment better...( but that's only what we are told).

I think this is one of the hardest selling points of EVs. People don't see how it makes their life easier or better.

I'm on a few different forums and every one of those forums EV threads (like this) get created every month (like on here). Every one of those threads just like this one simply rinse and repeat the same discussion points. I normally refrain from getting involved in the conversations because frankly it's just the same stuff over and over... So... I'm going to check out of this one now too...

Happy EV talks...!
Probably no one has heard of the 1903 Project as it was evaded in history class. It was started by progressive Democrat Theodore Roosevelt. In cahoots with Henry Ford and John D. Rockefeller, they conspired to promote the horseless carriage and create a tax base for gasoline to force them upon the populace. The scheme included shutting down production and farm leases for oats and for grass to make hay to obsolete the horse and buggy. This alternate history has been revisited for the shift to EVs and is indoctrinating college students as we speak.
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Old 05-17-2022, 02:03 PM   #527
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We are the most emmision free country in the WORLD!
We will never make any difference in the world scheme of things.
We have more proven Oil Fields ever!
The Socialist are trying their hardest to control us and I will not stand for it.
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Old 05-17-2022, 02:12 PM   #528
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We are the most emmision free country in the WORLD!
We will never make any difference in the world scheme of things.
We have more proven Oil Fields ever!
The Socialist are trying their hardest to control us and I will not stand for it.
You are literally just making things up. We are by no means the most emissions-free country in the world. Not even close. China is #1, we're #2. Per capita we're lower, but we are still in the mid-teens. Not even close to the "most".

Data for reference. This can be cross-referenced all over the place.

Stop politicizing something that isn't political.
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Old 05-17-2022, 03:45 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by MightyBobo View Post
I definitely agree with this. But it's important to say this: "That is OK!"

There's nothing wrong with the people who simply don't feel an EV (right now) is an improvement in their life.

I firmly agree that everyone has their "point" where an EV will suddenly be an improvement for them, and their view will change. But politicizing them and making your choice based on that is just full-on Ape Brain. And that is for both sides.
There is so much truth here. Politicizing EV on either side of the political spectrum is just weird and wrong. I'm glad smartphones weren't politicized when iPhone first came on the scene. "What do you mean there's no number buttons?" "If it doesn't flip I don't have a use for it". "You know the government is using those things to track you, right?" Ok, that last one is true, but you get my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor5244 View Post
FWIW, I own both a ZL1 and Tesla Model 3. Here is what I like and probably most will appreciate about EVs. For enthusiast like us the ideal situation is EV for daily driving and performance ICE vehicle for the track and fun.

Benefits of EV

1. Lower operating cost - Fuel, oil changes, brake pads. No tune-ups services, etc. Just tires and washer fluid.
2. No need to warm it up. Maybe tires a little bit but the EV traction control keep you safe.
3. No concerns about wasting fuel wear and tear when idling a lot. I sometimes have to sit and wait for my kids in the car for extended periods and if I am in the ZL1 I am not going to idle it for 30 minutes and waste fuel. In the EV, AC is cranked and you barely use any energy when at a stop.
4. Once you get over the initial cost of a charging outlet at home, it is actually more convenient than going to a gas station. I am always in a line at Costco for gas but in the EV I just plug in in the evening and always leave with a full tank of electrons in the morning. For longer trips where you need to charge at a public location it is doable but more inconvenient.
5. The Tesla tech is really good and OTA software updates help address and software issues.
6. Instant torque is great for daily driving and navigating

ZL1
1. True visceral experience with all the noises, vibrations, tire spin, gauges, driving position, seats, etc.
2. Bigger smile when driving.
Always good to hear detailed findings and impressions from someone living in both worlds. Takes down a lot of the uninformed bias without pollyanna white-washing from the perspective of one being "all-in".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXCSSU View Post
Right, the transition from horse n buggy to automobile vs the transition from ICE vehicles to EV vehicles isn't that drastic a change, is my point. I saw somewhere that they were even considering highways that charged your vehicle as you drove on them. I'm sure that's going to be interesting for people with pacemakers, granted I don't like the idea of them on the road to begin with.

I guess my biggest point is that we'll slowly transition and it's not going to be the Armageddon that everyone insists it will be. Sure there are going to be some growing pains, but it's not going to be nearly as bad as the horse n buggy to automobile transition was. I wonder how the horse n buggy diehards argued against cars, would've been interesting, "you mean I have to get outside and crank that thing in front? I don't have to do that with ole Nelly here, just feed her a carrot and have a trough of water for her!". As much as I love the visceral sounds of my Camaro, I don't see the industry keeping around the ICE powered car just because people love the sound. Hell, I loved the sound of old analog audio, but everything has gone digital. Sure records are popular with the kids again, but progress doesn't really wait on anyone.
The thing that has me shaking my head is the number of people whose opinions seem to project that the switch from ICE to EV will happen overnight and will be mandated by law. If every car manufacturer said today that they were going to go 100% BEV, it would still take 2 or 3 decades to even get close. GM said in 2020 that they would be all zero emission by 2035. That's 15 years and they have been the most aggressive. In the meantime they have introduced a few new ICE vehicle platforms (Corvette, Canyon/Colorado).

On the opposite end of the logic meter would be the people that look at the current EV offerings and assume that there will never be an EV that meets their needs. That's part of what's going to take so long for the transition to happen. The first wave of EVs were basically proof of concept. Small, short-range devoid o' features machines that only early adopters would love. They were small and had short range to try to keep the costs down. Costs, not price.

Second wave (pronounced Tesla) focused on pseudo-luxury vehicles aimed at thin segments of the market where buyers are less price sensitive and looking for the latest cool thing. Tesla nailed that. Porsche and Lucid are capitalizing on this too.

Now the third wave is currently focused on vehicles that are very popular and in segments where consumers are willing to spend for options and where they can be made and sold with some level of profit (SUV / CUV / Pickup). This is driving the volume growth of EVs. EV sales are up more than 100% year to year because there are more options in the types of vehicles people buy by the hundreds of thousands. Mustang Mach E is a great example, as are the slew of EV pickups that are starting to come up for production launch.

The fourth wave will start to provide more mainstream vehicles for everyday buyers who want to replace their everyday cars. Blazer EV and Equinox EV will likely be the stars of this wave of EVs.

The fifth wave will be where the different automakers start to really flex their muscles and introduce more emotional products that identify their brands. The Dodge EVs will fit nicely in this wave of vehicles, along with Cadillac sedans to replace CT4/5 and whatever Chevrolet launches (coupe or sedan). Eventually there will be an electric (or fuel cell) version in every category of vehicle. Even then, there will still be some ICE vehicles left standing. There are still some use cases where EVs don't yet make the best proposition. That's why the transition will not be overnight. It will be relatively fast, but it won't be complete for several decades. At some point our great-grandkids will be like "yeah this one’s a classic...inherited it from my great-grandpa. Wanna see something cool? Open the frunk".
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Old 05-17-2022, 03:54 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by TXCSSU View Post
More sustainable than rotting dinosaur carcasses?!?!?!
I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to jump from one unsustainable method of transportation to another unsustainable method of transportation. At some point the goal needs to be to stop poisoning the planet instead of finding new and more effective ways of poisoning the planet.
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Old 05-17-2022, 03:55 PM   #531
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You are literally just making things up. We are by no means the most emissions-free country in the world. Not even close. China is #1, we're #2. Per capita we're lower, but we are still in the mid-teens. Not even close to the "most".

Data for reference. This can be cross-referenced all over the place.

Stop politicizing something that isn't political.
Stop being obtuse and deceptive.
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Old 05-17-2022, 03:55 PM   #532
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I think the Blazer and Equinox EVs will become the darling child of EV's for GM.
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2022 Vivid Orange 2SS 1LE ordered (BDQDHT, 1G1FG1R7XN0108251) - ETA 20220223

20211120 - 1100 --- 20211207 - 2500
20211208 - 3000 (TPW: was 20220103, now 20220124)
20211220 - 3400 (TPW: 20220110)
20220114 - 3800 --- 20220122 - 4300 (1LE Wrap Shuffle)
20220125 - 4B00 --- 20220129 - 4200 (Shipped! ETA: 20220223)
20220212 - 4800 --- 20220216 - 6000!

2024 Silverado EV RST First Edition on reserve, as well.
MightyBobo is offline  
 
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