[DaveC113]

I got a set over a year ago, finally installed them with the Brembo fluid SWZL1LE recommended. With covid things changed, but luckily my small biz is ok. I did not get to attend any of the track driving schools I was looking into, but did a dozen or so autocross races. Now, I'm investing a ton back into the biz so the car stuff will have to partially wait once again this year, but I did a few upgrades: GMPP ZLE rear cradle bushings, GMPP eLSD autox tune, brake lines and fluid. Hopefully the investment will work out and next fun car will be a C8 Z06!

I used the Motive bleeder and catch bottles, worked great, simple, easy for one person to bleed the brakes. I got the two-bottle kit so you can do one caliper at a time.

The difference vs stock is immediately noticeable on the lift after pumping the brakes a few times to check the bleed. I just drove on the street, but the difference in pedal feel is WAY different, more firm, more direct. Combined with the rear cradle bushings the car feels significantly improved over stock in terms of being a driver-focused sports car. Maybe a (small) step back for a highway cruiser though.

Not sure I'll be testing these near their limits anytime real soon in terms of pushing brake temps, but they will definitely help for autocross, and hopefully I'll get out on the track this year too.

[N Camarolina]

I'll ask a naive question (recently acquired a 1LE and doing most of the maintenance myself for first time in my life) in hopes of understanding better, so please indulge me:

I get the idea that the carbon fiber lines are stiffer than OEM, and that is what makes peddle feel more firm (no flex). But I also noticed from the kit pictures that the lines are too short to run from the engine bay to rear wheels, or even from the left side of car to the right. The kit ones look just long enough to connect calipers to OEM lines that emerge near the fender well. What are the OEM lines made of that are running from the master cylinder to the fender wells? If they are just rubber and not something with no flex like steel, then how do you get any benefit by replacing the just the ends of the runs in the fender well with something (carbon fiber in this case) that doesn't flex?

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I'll ask a naive question (recently acquired a 1LE and doing most of the maintenance myself for first time in my life) in hopes of understanding better, so please indulge me:

I get the idea that the carbon fiber lines are stiffer than OEM, and that is what makes peddle feel more firm (no flex). But I also noticed from the kit pictures that the lines are too short to run from the engine bay to rear wheels, or even from the left side of car to the right. The kit ones look just long enough to connect calipers to OEM lines that emerge near the fender well. What are the OEM lines made of that are running from the master cylinder to the fender wells? If they are just rubber and not something with no flex like steel, then how do you get any benefit by replacing the just the ends of the runs in the fender well with something (carbon fiber in this case) that doesn't flex?

All brake lines (in every car) from the Master Cylinder /ABS Module to the area of the wheel well are hard steel lines. You only need a flexible line from the wheel well to the caliper itself. Since the caliper can move due to wheel movement/steering input.


These CF lines (and all aftermarket stainless lines) do nothing for braking performance. They are a dress-up part only.


You'll see and hear a lot of talk about pedal feel and 'squishy' rubber, but it's not a thing. The core of the OEM line is braided steel also.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I'll ask a naive question (recently acquired a 1LE and doing most of the maintenance myself for first time in my life) in hopes of understanding better, so please indulge me:

I get the idea that the carbon fiber lines are stiffer than OEM, and that is what makes peddle feel more firm (no flex). But I also noticed from the kit pictures that the lines are too short to run from the engine bay to rear wheels, or even from the left side of car to the right. The kit ones look just long enough to connect calipers to OEM lines that emerge near the fender well. What are the OEM lines made of that are running from the master cylinder to the fender wells? If they are just rubber and not something with no flex like steel, then how do you get any benefit by replacing the just the ends of the runs in the fender well with something (carbon fiber in this case) that doesn't flex?

The lines are an exact match for stock, not sure why you think they are shorter? That obviously wouldn't work.

This replaces the stock flexible lines that allow for motion of the caliper due to steering and suspension movement, which are made the same way as all other brake lines AFAIK. The CF ones have less flex and a higher burst pressure.

The stock lines that run from the fender to the ABS module under the hood are all solid steel lines, they are not replaced with this kit and since they are solid steel, they don't flex.

[N Camarolina]

OK. Thanks both for the clarification. Steel lines running from the master cylinder and ABS module to the 4 fender wells, and then the OEM (or kit in this case) lines from the wells to the calipers.

So all that remains is the difference in opinion as to the actual benefit of carbon fiber lines over OEM within the fender well area. I can see a safety benefit (puncture prevention) or perhaps a feel benefit IF the OEM lines did not have steel braiding inside of them, but Matthew says they do, so I'm left wondering why one would switch to carbon fiber.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

OK. Thanks both for the clarification. Steel lines running from the master cylinder and ABS module to the 4 fender wells, and then the OEM (or kit in this case) lines from the wells to the calipers.

So all that remains is the difference in opinion as to the actual benefit of carbon fiber lines over OEM within the fender well area. I can see a safety benefit (puncture prevention) or perhaps a feel benefit IF the OEM lines did not have steel braiding inside of them, but Matthew says they do, so I'm left wondering why one would switch to carbon fiber.

All brake lines have steel braiding in them, but that doesn't mean they don't flex... they do. The CF lines as well as other aftermarket steel braided lines do not flex as much, and they have higher burst pressure.

The benefit is 100% in pedal feel. It's not like the OEM lines are inadequate or dangerous, they are not, the OEM lines are just fine.

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

All brake lines have steel braiding in them, but that doesn't mean they don't flex... they do. The CF lines as well as other aftermarket steel braided lines do not flex as much, and they have higher burst pressure.

The benefit is 100% in pedal feel. It's not like the OEM lines are inadequate or dangerous, they are not, the OEM lines are just fine.

Dave said it well.


The only reason I mention it is some who swap lines (which aren't cheap) often think there will be a transformative increase in their brake performance. There won't be. A average to above average driver will notice no difference.


If you are considering swapping lines, you want a line that has a liner between the stainless braid and the inner core. Since the steel is a braid, dirt/particles will get into the braid and then start chewing on the inner core. That leads to pinhole leaks, which leads to brake failure.


I don't know if the mentioned CF lines have a liner. I do know that Speigler and Goodrich lines are lined.



BTW - I swapped my OEM lines for Speigler.

[Junkyardspecial]

The core of the OE lines do not have steel in them. This has been posted and proven many times. I can link you visible proof. The stock 1LE lines are dual Rayon in the front wrapped with rubber and rear are single layer Rayon.

It is also false that all brake lines have steel in them, they cant due to risk of corrosion so they use different combinations of fiber weave with Teflon or PTFE to have a liner, which all lines also have. The liners in the carbon fiber lines are heat resistant and non-hygroscopic.

As for "dress up" The proof shows otherwise and the opinion is moot really. There is a reason many race teams use carbon fiber braiding over Stainless.

We stopped selling the lines for now because we couldn't keep up with the orders. We still have some sitting that we might possibly be able to sell but with how busy Mani is, we don't want to guarantee shipping dates.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

All brake lines (in every car) from the Master Cylinder /ABS Module to the area of the wheel well are hard steel lines. You only need a flexible line from the wheel well to the caliper itself. Since the caliper can move due to wheel movement/steering input.


These CF lines (and all aftermarket stainless lines) do nothing for braking performance. They are a dress-up part only.


You'll see and hear a lot of talk about pedal feel and 'squishy' rubber, but it's not a thing. The core of the OEM line is braided steel also.

Nope. Please stop saying this. It's 100% false.

P.S. yes, the "squishy feel" is a thing. More on some vehicles than others. On the Camaro, not so much.

Originally Posted by DaveC113

All brake lines have steel braiding in them, but that doesn't mean they don't flex... they do. The CF lines as well as other aftermarket steel braided lines do not flex as much, and they have higher burst pressure.

The benefit is 100% in pedal feel. It's not like the OEM lines are inadequate or dangerous, they are not, the OEM lines are just fine.

No...

I made a loooong, detailed post on this stuff...

Good SS braided lines and the CF lines flex nearly nothing, especially compared to the rubber, textile-reinforced DOT OE stuff on all cars.

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

Dave said it well.


The only reason I mention it is some who swap lines (which aren't cheap) often think there will be a transformative increase in their brake performance. There won't be. A average to above average driver will notice no difference.


If you are considering swapping lines, you want a line that has a liner between the stainless braid and the inner core. Since the steel is a braid, dirt/particles will get into the braid and then start chewing on the inner core. That leads to pinhole leaks, which leads to brake failure.


I don't know if the mentioned CF lines have a liner. I do know that Speigler and Goodrich lines are lined.



BTW - I swapped my OEM lines for Speigler.

Yeah, maybe cheap, knock-off Chinese product...

The CF lines are coated on the outside, similar to the Goodridge.

[Junkyardspecial]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Nope. Please stop saying this. It's 100% false.

P.S. yes, the "squishy feel" is a thing. More on some vehicles than others. On the Camaro, not so much.



No...

I made a loooong, detailed post on this stuff...

Good SS braided lines and the CF lines flex nearly nothing, especially compared to the rubber, textile-reinforced DOT OE stuff on all cars.



Yeah, maybe cheap, knock-off Chinese product...

The CF lines are coated on the outside, similar to the Goodridge.

Thank you. Was about to post your thread where you cut open the OE lines. I dont know why that false rumor keeps getting spread around.

[DaveC113]

If the OEM lines don't use steel that's news to me but I certainly don't dispute it... I haven't cut my OEM lines apart! But it doesn't really matter, all that does matter is how much it flexes and how much brake feel is improved by switching to a line that has less flex. Higher burst pressure is nice too, but hard to say how much that matters. Brake lines do wear out over time so maybe longer life is possible, IDK.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Junkyardspecial

I dont know why that false rumor keeps getting spread around.

It's not a rumor, it's just people assuming they do... because most do.

As I said, whether it does or not really doesn't matter. It's fine to correct, but it's just a minor detail.

[Junkyardspecial]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

If the OEM lines don't use steel that's news to me but I certainly don't dispute it... I haven't cut my OEM lines apart! But it doesn't really matter, all that does matter is how much it flexes and how much brake feel is improved by switching to a line that has less flex. Higher burst pressure is nice too, but hard to say how much that matters. Brake lines do wear out over time so maybe longer life is possible, IDK.

CF lines will last longer just because SS lines dont like to change shape after sometime. They are more prone to pinhole leaks from kinks and bad routing too. the CF lines can be tied in a knot and still flow the same.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Junkyardspecial

CF lines will last longer just because SS lines dont like to change shape after sometime. They are more prone to pinhole leaks from kinks and bad routing too. the CF lines can be tied in a knot and still flow the same.

Yep. The CF lines will last for forever and good SS lines will last for near-forever. The other nice thing with CF lines are what Junkyardspecial states: you can put them in very tight bend radii and they are not effected by climate; whereas SS lines have a bend radius limit and don't appreciate the cold, mainly due to the PTFE liner/tube.

These lines, either SS or CF, aren't needs on these cars, but they do add something a little extra in pedal feel, have an improvement in brake apply/release efficiency (dependent on how worn/fatigued your OE rubber lines are), are much more temperature stable (i.e. harsh conditions, like track driving), are much more durable all around (i.e. high pressure use, fatigue resistance, impact resistance) and, as said, will last a lot longer.