04-08-2021, 12:58 PM | #43 | |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,011
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04-08-2021, 01:58 PM | #44 | |
Petro-sexual
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I'd be interested in as much information about manifolds/LTs as is out there. From what I recall reading, manifolds were pretty dang good, and it was the stock cats' that would eventually start killing power around 650-RWHP. I think it was JRE saying they start to get hot and trap heat and you start getting into timing problems in the combustion chamber. Then you have to start retarding timing, and start killing power.
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04-08-2021, 03:45 PM | #45 | |
Drives: 2018 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE 6M Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: California
Posts: 283
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Let's start with the Integra LS intake manifold. It has a relatively small plenum and long, thin runners. This intake manifold makes good torque down low, but runs out of air above about 6,500 (the stock rev limiter on those motors is 7,200). Next, we have the Integra Type-R intake manifold. The plenum is larger and the runners are shorter and fatter. This manifold will give up a little bottom end torque, but pulls pretty strong up to about 8,800 RPM or so-provided you have enough cam and a decent header/exhaust combo. Last, we have the Edelbrock Victor X. The plenum is huge and the runners are extremely short and fat. Below 8,000 RPM these things are dogs on N/A motors. To take advantage of this manifold you have to run a very large cam and rev the motor to 9,500. This manifold also works well on turbo motors, but that's a story for another day. With the Camaro LT1 motor, the stock LT1 intake manifold would be the Integra LS manifold, for the sake of comparison. The MSD intake manifold would be the Integra Type-R intake manifold in this demonstration. The Holley high ram would be the equivalent of the Victor X. The stock LT1 intake manifold peaks around 5,700 or so. The MSD peaks around 6,000 RPM or so and starts beating the stock intake manifold from about 5,000 RPM on up. At 6,5000 RPM the MSD is better by about 30+ HP. Finally you have the Holley high ram. You give up a bunch of torque down low, but it makes a ton of power up top. All of this is subject to camshaft/header/exhaust and tune variations, but overall this should give you an basic idea of what you are dealing with.
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Bolt-ons.
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04-08-2021, 06:08 PM | #46 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Indy
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2017 Camaro 1SS, M6, Hurst shifter, Hyper Blue, NPP, Gray Split Spoke Wheels
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04-08-2021, 06:36 PM | #47 |
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,201
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How can we port our stock manifolds? I know they are double wall and I believe the cat downpipe is double wall as well which makes things almost impossible to do anything significant with.
Given how big the cross section is on the manifolds and cat pipe, I don't see how you could do much besides finish the rough let over edges and things from manufacturing and clean up the burrs and other sharp edges? The factory manifolds and cat downpipes I think are the only thing that can make the car sound good. I know I am going to get bashed for this but every single aftermarket header makes the car sound like crap. I am not talking about the same sound that comes from the back of the car to me headers make zero difference in that sound besides it being louder and more obnoxious with no cats. The stock exhaust has a lot of good engineering in it to keep away these bad sounding ticks and crappy work van sounds. I don't believe there is any engineering at all that goes into aftermarket headers period. |
04-08-2021, 06:49 PM | #48 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,011
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It's not the first time I've heard it. Lund Jr also made the same statement about his catless mustangs when the Epa visited his shop. Now I don't know about hc, co , co2, &pm but he did specifically mention the NOx.
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04-08-2021, 07:20 PM | #49 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,460
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Talk is cheap though. I want to see the data to prove it. Which fuel was he referring to. Meeting one constituent doesn’t cut it.. you need to meet ALL to certify.
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2017 Camaro 1SS, M6, Hurst shifter, Hyper Blue, NPP, Gray Split Spoke Wheels
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04-08-2021, 07:23 PM | #50 | |
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,201
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I think synthetic fuels have a lot of potential to reduce a lot of "emissions" that are probably not nearly as prevalent as the usual ones just because the fuels would be more pure. I think given how efficient the modern three way catalyst is in flow, yes I know that's what we are talking about how much power it takes, but relatively this is not much. Also the fact that its on every vehicle so they can be produced in significant quantities and they are very recyclable. The do gooders don't want to hear this though and continue for banning and 100% electric no exceptions. |
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04-08-2021, 07:33 PM | #51 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 223
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If it was only about acceleration then people should just buy a Tesla. For me that's not why I buy toy cars. It also has to do with the sound which is why every toy car I own the exhaust was the first thing I changed out. I've driven many bone stock Corvette's and Camaro's and they're just okay. With headers, which make a huge difference in sound, and a good exhaust they are a thrill to play around in. Some cars don't sound all that great with a stock camshaft and dumps but headers and a good exhaust really elevate the driving experience of a car for a lot of people, but it's all personal preference. Never thought I'd see bashing of louder cars on a performance forum, much different days from LS1Tech. The performance industry is such a small percentage of the car population as a whole. If pollution was a true concern perhaps polyester, styrofoam, plastic bags, and many other materials should be the focus over modified cars. The performance world is a small group of people just trying to have fun.
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04-08-2021, 07:44 PM | #52 |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,796
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Call BS all you want I don't give a ****.
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
04-08-2021, 07:46 PM | #53 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 223
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04-08-2021, 07:53 PM | #54 |
Drives: like an old lady Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: indiana
Posts: 2,395
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i will disagree with this 100%. headers will provide a much cleaner and smoother exhaust note vs a manifold (same muffler) every time. im drawing my conclusion from the fact that i've owned several vehicles with cat deletes and switched to headers. not going to lie, that was one of the main reasons i put headers on this car so soon.
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04-08-2021, 07:57 PM | #55 |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: McCordsville, Indiana
Posts: 621
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I plan on actually running CATs (CSP w/ HF CATS) but only because some tuners are making that a requirement now. I’m going 100% E85. Like you I wish this fuel was considered more seriously, and not because I’m just an Indiana farm boy it really does burn cleaner.
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2019 Shock 2SS A10. 2650@10psi/LPE HPFP/XDI+30/LT4 LPFP+JMS/Soler 95mm/Rotofab, E65, CSP 2” Headers/GESI GenII Cats. MM Wild/GM SG3 suspension/1LE Brakes, Velgen VF5 Wheels/GY SC3. JRE Tuned.
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04-08-2021, 08:01 PM | #56 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,796
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
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