Mustang GT with 10 speed creeping up to the the ZL1

SammyDog · 11-09-2018, 08:09 AM

Today Car and Driver online has a piece on the two Mustangs with the new 10 speed, similar to our own transmission.

First of all, they are not impressed with the Ford A10 during spirited driving. Ford and GM both worked on it but I don't know what the differences are. I love mine for sure - no regrets.

Scroll down to the V8 model. The weight of the GT coupe is 3851 lb.

I can't help but to notice how quick that sucker is in a straight line. I know, I know, this is not what the ZL1 is about. For one thing I own a convertible so straight line is not my thing. Nonetheless that GT coupe gets mighty close to the ZL1 LE and vert auto with 200 fewer hp and torque (stick in one case and weight in the other enter into the equation of course, but even the coupe auto!). What gives? traction would be my guess. I admit I have not compared the other numbers, but they don't appear to be too far apart either if I recall. The skidpad # of the GT is sharply lower than the LE and the Coupe ZL1.

I realize that these are just numbers on paper, but nonetheless. The law of diminishing returns seems to be at play here. I have owned a few Mustang GTs back in the day. It has gone a long way for sure.

Rodan · 11-09-2018, 08:33 AM

We had a '17 Mustang GT Performance Pack prior to our ZL1, and drove an '18 GT Performance Pack with the A10. We were considering trading up to a '19 GT next year sometime, but picked up the ZL1 with only 2700 miles for a good deal, and not much more than we would have paid for a new '19 Mustang GT Performance Pack with the options we wanted.

There's no comparison, at least not stock to stock. The Mustang is good, flat out from a stop. There's no question the A10 works really well with the Coyote. In regular driving however, the lack of torque has the trans constantly shifting around looking for torque.

If you track the car (we do), again, the ZL1 will leave the Mustang in the dust.

Also, the interior and infotainment is better on the ZL1. The only thing the Mustang did better was have a bigger glove box. And it was Grabber Blue... we do miss that color!

collinms · 11-09-2018, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyDog

Today Car and Driver online has a piece on the two Mustangs with the new 10 speed, similar to our own transmission.

First of all, they are not impressed with the Ford A10 during spirited driving. Ford and GM both worked on it but I don't know what the differences are. I love mine for sure - no regrets.

Scroll down to the V8 model. The weight of the GT coupe is 3851 lb.

I can't help but to notice how quick that sucker is in a straight line. I know, I know, this is not what the ZL1 is about. For one thing I own a convertible so straight line is not my thing. Nonetheless that GT coupe gets mighty close to the ZL1 LE and vert auto with 200 fewer hp and torque (stick in one case and weight in the other enter into the equation of course, but even the coupe auto!). What gives? traction would be my guess. I admit I have not compared the other numbers, but they don't appear to be too far apart either if I recall. The skidpad # of the GT is sharply lower than the LE and the Coupe ZL1.

I realize that these are just numbers on paper, but nonetheless. The law of diminishing returns seems to be at play here. I have owned a few Mustang GTs back in the day. It has gone a long way for sure.

Keep in mind that with all the HP and TQ on the ZL1, 0-60 times are traction limited. After 60, I would imagine that the ZL1 makes bigger strides when all the power can be applied to the ground. For example, a highway pull would be night and day difference I would think. Think of the new Porsche boxsters, they have incredible 0-60 times, but what if you raced one on the highway? or past 60? They would get destroyed.

BMWM.D. · 11-09-2018, 09:21 AM

Looks like it was a tenth and 2 MPH faster in the quarter than the Camaro SS with the A10 (12.1 vs 12.2). I wouldn’t say that’s close to a ZL1. At least a comparable one like an A10 Coupe.

Vtor_ZL1 · 11-09-2018, 09:21 AM

As long as you enjoy track days one lap at a time and 2 for cool down

URBAN LEGEND · 11-09-2018, 11:41 AM

It should get closer and closer. Heat on your tail is good. Makes GM produce faster cars in the future. Imagine if no one made any progress? We would still be in the 275 HP era.

cbr1100xx · 11-09-2018, 11:42 AM

Drove a couple Mustang GT A10s. For a street car for the $ (base auto dealer was going to sell for $31,500), at almost $30K less than a ZL1, it's an awesome value if you don't have ZL1 money to spend.

I'm sure the ZL1 will feel a bit faster and torqueyer (if that's a word). But the GT felt like it had plenty of low end grunt in the A10 as well. The Recaros in the ZL1 are better (I've tried them out in the 1LE) than any Mustang seats as they should be for the price.

Unfortunately the Mustang forum is now littered with people having issues with rough shifting in the A10 after accumulating miles and the engine tick/piston slap.

I'm curious what the numbers will be with the A10 in the '19 SS. I'm sure it will be on par with the Mustang.

Gunkk · 11-09-2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyDog

What gives? traction would be my guess.

You're on the right track. IMO, it's two things:

1. Chevy's Torque Management holds back the ZL1. They got a little too rambunctious with TM in our cars, so they don't launch nearly as hard as the GT. It's not traction. The more traction you get, the more the car bogs.

2. The GT's high rev limit means fewer shifts during the quarter mile.

So yeah we get a warranty that covers track use ... and the cost is a couple tenths in the 1/4.

Mr Carrots · 11-09-2018, 12:12 PM

Whipple Stage 2 that A10 and the Zl1 will be so far behind on the straight it's not funny. 10.3 on pump gas for a 40k ish package is insane

I love the ZL1 but chevy really skimped on the stock blower, for the money this car should be in the 10s, not mid 11s

Rodan · 11-09-2018, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

I love the ZL1 but chevy really skimped on the stock blower, for the money this car should be in the 10s, not mid 11s

Well, it was designed for the track, not the strip...

DiGiam · 11-09-2018, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

Whipple Stage 2 that A10 and the Zl1 will be so far behind on the straight it's not funny. 10.3 on pump gas for a 40k ish package is insane

I love the ZL1 but chevy really skimped on the stock blower, for the money this car should be in the 10s, not mid 11s

That game has been played since the beginning of racing. Many cars can be bought for less and made faster. Doesnt mean you have a better car. by your logic we should all go buy a fox body or f-body and run 8's for 30-40k.

Bill_76 · 11-09-2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

Whipple Stage 2 that A10 and the Zl1 will be so far behind on the straight it's not funny. 10.3 on pump gas for a 40k ish package is insane

I love the ZL1 but chevy really skimped on the stock blower, for the money this car should be in the 10s, not mid 11s

The life does not finish in a 1/4 of a mile, a car is not only the acceleration...brakes? cornering? Hopefully, American car factories started to understand that...and now we can drive a complete car like the ZL1/ Mustang GT350. I'm a former Mustang owner and actually have the ZL1 and one of the best cornering cars (Cayman GT4), so I base my response on my experience

Can'tHave2MuchHP · 11-09-2018, 05:43 PM

The new A10 Mustang is a great car but not in the league of the ZL1.

Modifications take all bets off the table. The ZL1 with a few grand will easily manage 700-750 RWHP, putting you at say an out the door price of $75,000 for a mid 10 second car that drives like stock and thrashes a road course. Put a blower on the Mustang and yes you're spending less and if you're ONLY concerned about the quarter mile, it won't be bad. However, what you're getting with the ZL1 is superior handling, brakes, chassis, tires, interior, styling, and it's not a mustang

.

This is ignoring a big point - if you only care about quarter mile times, then a ZL1 and Mustang GT are BOTH very stupid cars to start with. If you want a fast GT car, ZL1. If you want a poor mans fast GT car, Mustang GT. Now the GT500 will be a monster, of that I have no doubt.

mdmoore23 · 11-09-2018, 07:57 PM

A GT is a pretty good value, but no competition for a ZL1. I'm assuming the OP is only referring to 0-60 times, because a GT is nowhere near a ZL1 in any other acceleration metric. And in rwd 0-60, there's only so fast your gonna get with a normal car on average surfaces.

11-09-2018, 08:09 AM	#1
SammyDog Drives: 2018 Zl1 Vert A10 Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 18	Mustang GT with 10 speed creeping up to the the ZL1 Today Car and Driver online has a piece on the two Mustangs with the new 10 speed, similar to our own transmission. First of all, they are not impressed with the Ford A10 during spirited driving. Ford and GM both worked on it but I don't know what the differences are. I love mine for sure - no regrets. Scroll down to the V8 model. The weight of the GT coupe is 3851 lb. I can't help but to notice how quick that sucker is in a straight line. I know, I know, this is not what the ZL1 is about. For one thing I own a convertible so straight line is not my thing. Nonetheless that GT coupe gets mighty close to the ZL1 LE and vert auto with 200 fewer hp and torque (stick in one case and weight in the other enter into the equation of course, but even the coupe auto!). What gives? traction would be my guess. I admit I have not compared the other numbers, but they don't appear to be too far apart either if I recall. The skidpad # of the GT is sharply lower than the LE and the Coupe ZL1. I realize that these are just numbers on paper, but nonetheless. The law of diminishing returns seems to be at play here. I have owned a few Mustang GTs back in the day. It has gone a long way for sure.

11-09-2018, 09:21 AM	#5
Vtor_ZL1 Who Needs to KNOW? Drives: 18 ZLE Join Date: May 2018 Location: Left Side of the Moon Posts: 1,770	As long as you enjoy track days one lap at a time and 2 for cool down __________________ ing for grip. Are you in the NY/NJ/PA/CT region? Join us for autox fun at MetLife Stadium. HUGE lots, tons of runs. http://www.motorsportsne.com/

11-09-2018, 11:41 AM	#6
URBAN LEGEND Drives: 20 X3M CP & 19 ZL1 1LE A10 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Brenham, TX Posts: 3,517	It should get closer and closer. Heat on your tail is good. Makes GM produce faster cars in the future. Imagine if no one made any progress? We would still be in the 275 HP era. __________________ 🔺22 RS E TRON GT 🔺21 Model S Plaid

11-09-2018, 08:33 AM	#2
Rodan Drives: 2018 ZL1 coupe Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 589	We had a '17 Mustang GT Performance Pack prior to our ZL1, and drove an '18 GT Performance Pack with the A10. We were considering trading up to a '19 GT next year sometime, but picked up the ZL1 with only 2700 miles for a good deal, and not much more than we would have paid for a new '19 Mustang GT Performance Pack with the options we wanted. There's no comparison, at least not stock to stock. The Mustang is good, flat out from a stop. There's no question the A10 works really well with the Coyote. In regular driving however, the lack of torque has the trans constantly shifting around looking for torque. If you track the car (we do), again, the ZL1 will leave the Mustang in the dust. Also, the interior and infotainment is better on the ZL1. The only thing the Mustang did better was have a bigger glove box. And it was Grabber Blue... we do miss that color!

11-09-2018, 09:21 AM	#4
BMWM.D. Drives: ZL1/335i Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Santa Barbara Posts: 870	Looks like it was a tenth and 2 MPH faster in the quarter than the Camaro SS with the A10 (12.1 vs 12.2). I wouldn’t say that’s close to a ZL1. At least a comparable one like an A10 Coupe.

11-09-2018, 11:42 AM	#7
cbr1100xx Account Suspended Drives: '14 Jetta 1.8, '19 1SS Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 886	Drove a couple Mustang GT A10s. For a street car for the $ (base auto dealer was going to sell for $31,500), at almost $30K less than a ZL1, it's an awesome value if you don't have ZL1 money to spend. I'm sure the ZL1 will feel a bit faster and torqueyer (if that's a word). But the GT felt like it had plenty of low end grunt in the A10 as well. The Recaros in the ZL1 are better (I've tried them out in the 1LE) than any Mustang seats as they should be for the price. Unfortunately the Mustang forum is now littered with people having issues with rough shifting in the A10 after accumulating miles and the engine tick/piston slap. I'm curious what the numbers will be with the A10 in the '19 SS. I'm sure it will be on par with the Mustang.

11-09-2018, 12:12 PM	#9
Mr Carrots Drives: Bmw for now Join Date: May 2018 Location: Texas Posts: 35	Whipple Stage 2 that A10 and the Zl1 will be so far behind on the straight it's not funny. 10.3 on pump gas for a 40k ish package is insane I love the ZL1 but chevy really skimped on the stock blower, for the money this car should be in the 10s, not mid 11s

11-09-2018, 05:43 PM	#13
Can'tHave2MuchHP Drives: Fast Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,696	The new A10 Mustang is a great car but not in the league of the ZL1. Modifications take all bets off the table. The ZL1 with a few grand will easily manage 700-750 RWHP, putting you at say an out the door price of $75,000 for a mid 10 second car that drives like stock and thrashes a road course. Put a blower on the Mustang and yes you're spending less and if you're ONLY concerned about the quarter mile, it won't be bad. However, what you're getting with the ZL1 is superior handling, brakes, chassis, tires, interior, styling, and it's not a mustang . This is ignoring a big point - if you only care about quarter mile times, then a ZL1 and Mustang GT are BOTH very stupid cars to start with. If you want a fast GT car, ZL1. If you want a poor mans fast GT car, Mustang GT. Now the GT500 will be a monster, of that I have no doubt.

11-09-2018, 07:57 PM	#14
mdmoore23 Drives: 2017 ZL1 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Graniteville,SC Posts: 645	A GT is a pretty good value, but no competition for a ZL1. I'm assuming the OP is only referring to 0-60 times, because a GT is nowhere near a ZL1 in any other acceleration metric. And in rwd 0-60, there's only so fast your gonna get with a normal car on average surfaces.

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