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View Poll Results: Should they offer the 10 speed auto?
Yes they should do it! More choice = More sales! 84 60.43%
No they shouldn't! This car is about tradition and a pure driving experience! 55 39.57%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-14-2016, 06:51 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
If you're a dyed-in-the-wool road course kind of enthusiast it's a big problem. A take-away from what Chevy finally got around to offering to us guys whose tracks feature turns (in both directions).

Would you see a problem if future market and regulatory pressures (or unilateral corporate edict, for that matter) replaced the A10 in favor of a CVT? Same deal, really, but I think that one would hit home to a good many of those who are currently in favor of having the Z/28 offer the A10.


Norm
I would think someone who enjoys an automatic would be just as happy with a CVT, and that there would be no opposition to the CVT as long as it was a performer.
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Old 05-14-2016, 08:24 PM   #100
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Today at The 8th annual Rodgers Chev. Event Al said the Auto shifts so fast it has Porsche and Ferrari scratching their heads.
I think that is a vote for the Auto being able to handle track duty.
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Old 05-14-2016, 08:46 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
Today at The 8th annual Rodgers Chev. Event Al said the Auto shifts so fast it has Porsche and Ferrari scratching their heads.
I think that is a vote for the Auto being able to handle track duty.
Exactly.
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Old 05-15-2016, 09:19 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
Today at The 8th annual Rodgers Chev. Event Al said the Auto shifts so fast it has Porsche and Ferrari scratching their heads.
I think that is a vote for the Auto being able to handle track duty.
When Porsche and Ferrari start replacing their DCT's with slushboxes, then I'll believe the hype.
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Old 05-15-2016, 09:54 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
Today at The 8th annual Rodgers Chev. Event Al said the Auto shifts so fast it has Porsche and Ferrari scratching their heads.
I think that is a vote for the Auto being able to handle track duty.
Shifting that's that fast is relevant to drag racing, and maybe at a stretch, time trialing. Not your typical HPDE, not even if being driven at 9.5/10ths.


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Old 05-15-2016, 01:42 PM   #104
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Yes, it should be an option for the person who buy's the car. It's not about ego, it's about what a buyer wants.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:53 AM   #105
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When Porsche and Ferrari start replacing their DCT's with slushboxes, then I'll believe the hype.
The A10 has about as much in common with the old "slushboxes" as the ecotec does with the old Iron Duke.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:30 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Shifting that's that fast is relevant to drag racing, and maybe at a stretch, time trialing. Not your typical HPDE, not even if being driven at 9.5/10ths.


Norm
So a transmission that shifts faster than a Ferrari or Porsche Transmission - which they use on the track - shifts too fast and therefore could only be used for drag racing or maybe time trialing?

Explain please because I cannot fathom any manufacturer - including Porsche or Ferrari - saying, 'Nah, that's too fast for track use. Let's add another nano-second or two to the shift time'.

I must be missing something?
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:34 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven87 View Post
So a transmission that shifts faster than a Ferrari or Porsche Transmission - which they use on the track - shifts too fast and therefore could only be used for drag racing or maybe time trialing?

Explain please because I cannot fathom any manufacturer - including Porsche or Ferrari - saying, 'Nah, that's too fast for track use. Let's add another nano-second or two to the shift time'.

I must be missing something?
What I'm saying is that the difference is going to be the kind of difference that only shows up on lap timing clocks, which only matters when there is something at stake for winning or at least finishing on the podium. Things like tire contingencies, class standings, and trophies.

At HPDE there is no winning in the traditional sense and no contingencies. While you might notice that each shift takes less time to be executed, for most of us it's going to be within the 'noise' even among laps that don't involve passing or being passed.

Technically, I do have to wonder about shift harshness and whether the engine can be rev-matched fast enough to mitigate this or what other techniques might also be needed (and what else comes with them). Those things still take finite amounts of time to accomplish, so yes, I'm sure that you could have the actual gearshifting part a little too quick for its own good.

Drag racers have had quick-shifting automatics for years, and from what I've seen (and heard with my own ears) is that they're pretty harsh. Chirping your rear tires won't be what you want if you aren't pointed straight ahead and the throttle the only pedal in use. And as fast and as well-suited to the track as DSGs are, even they can still be harsh under part-throttle conditions. These things are getting better, but since magazine reviews still mention this from time to time they aren't quite there yet.


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Old 05-16-2016, 11:39 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
What I'm saying is that the difference is going to be the kind of difference that only shows up on lap timing clocks, which only matters when there is something at stake for winning or at least finishing on the podium. Things like tire contingencies, class standings, and trophies.

At HPDE there is no winning in the traditional sense and no contingencies. While you might notice that each shift takes less time to be executed, for most of us it's going to be within the 'noise' even among laps that don't involve passing or being passed.

Technically, I do have to wonder about shift harshness and whether the engine can be rev-matched fast enough to mitigate this or what other techniques might also be needed (and what else comes with them). Those things still take finite amounts of time to accomplish, so yes, I'm sure that you could have the actual gearshifting part a little too quick for its own good.

Drag racers have had quick-shifting automatics for years, and from what I've seen (and heard with my own ears) is that they're pretty harsh. Chirping your rear tires won't be what you want if you aren't pointed straight ahead and the throttle the only pedal in use. And as fast and as well-suited to the track as DSGs are, even they can still be harsh under part-throttle conditions. These things are getting better, but since magazine reviews still mention this from time to time they aren't quite there yet.


Norm
Thanks Norm. I still disagree but I understand better what you were saying.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:10 PM   #109
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Yes. The days of autos not being offered in performance models is long over and GM should see and understand that. I think they got the pout as the Z06 and ZL1 are both available with autos.

You also need to look at it this way. These aren't the $30 performance cars they were 15 yrs ago. My guess is the 1LE is going to come in at $55k or more and the new Z28 will be north of $80K. At that price point you need to look at your buyers. Your average 40 something most likely won't have that kind of cash laying around. Your buyers are going to be older and let's face it. As cool as it is to "drive a stick". In the real world, especially here in Chicago, they are a major PITA. given the fact that the autos are faster.....

I personally would have loved a 1LE or Z28 but not auto option so I didn't even consider them.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:35 PM   #110
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This just an old farts opinion on these new contraptions:

I voted that they should include the A10 to the Z28 IF it merits and contributes to this track star's abilities. Aaron Link's comments about how good it was in the ZL1 contributed my decision. I do believe that as technology for automatics progresses they become better and better with each new model. Are these truly as good as a DCT? Being able to shift as fast as a DCT does not make it as reliable. DCT's have shown their reliability after years of use in numerous model high end cars. The new A10 and others still have to prove their mettle on and off the track.

Case in point, the Chevy A8 transmission was also touted as having shifts as fast or quicker than a PDK which was it's benchmark. It might shift as fast as a PDK but reliability wise not as good. It has been well documented that numerous A8 equipped Corvettes have overheated under track use, mine included. How reliable will the A10 be, only time and track use will let us know for sure. The Z28/ZL1 should have better cooling capabilities than Corvettes have but lets have some owners in real life tell us how they are really doing.

Let's get back on track and to the OP's question. As most people know for drag racing, an automatic will beat a manual every time. I don't care how good you are at rowing a stick, you will not out shift an automatic. Being a drag racer from the late 60's, yes we had cars then, my 67 Nova with a Turbo 400, shift kit and B&M Bang Shifter was a very consistent bracket racer. Fifty years later, computer controlled transmissions are light years ahead of my Turbo 400. Most track cars use some sort of DCT (automatic) transmission without any stigma of not being a manual transmission in numerous racing sanctions including F1, IMSA and almost everything else outside of NASCAR. I do believe that modern automatics are making steady advancements on DCT's. Because of this, the A10 should be included as an option if for no other reason than to help improve the A10 for future use. Although the A10 might not be my choice, I would not want to deprive someone else from having it just because I did not want it or felt that the marque would be historically damaged by having an automatic.
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