[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just that auto hate is increasingly hard to justify factually and the sooner people start admitting it's just a preference, the sooner it can stop being a contention point that causes debates.

I agree with you 110,000%.

[Bhobbs]

Porsche is building the 911 R for purist. If they feel there is a market, then there must be a good one. It's manual only. That says a lot to ditch the PDK.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Porsche is building the 911 R for purist. If they feel there is a market, then there must be a good one. It's manual only. That says a lot to ditch the PDK.

What if it offered the manual and the PDK?

Just playing Devil's advocate...

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

What if it offered the manual and the PDK?

Just playing Devil's advocate...

You can what if all you want, but it doesn't. They even designed a 6 speed just for it. Porsche went out of their way to build a car and not use one of the best transmissions available.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I agree with you 110,000%.

Also, sometimes I know my text choices come off with intense emotion. So, sorry if there's some textual punch in there.. Not the case.. It's all emotionless wording coming from a purely logical basis and confusion.. That's all.. If anything I comment with was in any seen as personal, please let me clarify it wasn't.

I was a stick guy for the longest time.. and I'm not opposed to them.. I just know that for what I'm going to do, the auto is the more logical and efficient means of power transmission.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

If the 10 speed can handle all day track days and not die an early death, then sure!

That's the thing we'll have to wait and see.. The early track-rat guys with C7Z A8s had some serious overheating issues and the cars were going in to limp mode.. not going to re-hash and whatnot... it's all over CF and I don't want to seem like I'm beating a dead horse on it with frontal area, what Tadge did/didn't say, etc. etc.

I was in the market for an A8 C7Z and was close to buying it when the seller pulled out of the deal.. and, I had a deal going on a C7Z Z07 before that, but I backed out because I noticed the car had some quality issues I didn't like for the price it was being offered..

But, anyways... The A8 in Camaro SS and the A10 in ZL1 really haven't been put in to public hands yet to beat on during hot or even modest temp (C7Z's case) days.. So, we truly don't know if they will have (or will cause) thermal limitation and also go in to limp mode for whatever reason. So, in that regard, yes, I could see the manual version to be the more suitable one if you're doing to AutoX or Road Race it.

Drag Race? - I'd hands down take A8/A10 every day... But, this is the Z/28 we're talking about here and that's not a drag race king.. so, toss that point.

[Jimmy Superfly]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I'm really split on this ever since they showed the ZL1 with an A10....I really enjoy manual transmissions, they're the only gearbox in a Camaro I've ever owned. They're clearly best-suited to a road-track environment where the driver needs (and should have) full control over the gearing of the car.

But this new A10....it shifts unbelievably fast. It will make the automatic ZL1 faster around a track than the 6-speed; I'm sure of it.And there are dedicated road-course cars...like Indy, F1, LeMans....that use sequential gearboxes, which are...effectively automatics...

So I ask (generally), is the option for the A10 a question of performance? Control? Exclusivity? Purity?

If it's one of the first two...the A10 fits the bill.

The biggest question and issue I'd be afraid of is the heat aspect. I have faith they've attended to that in the ZL1. But, I like having options, so I voted yes. But only because this isn't your grandfather's slushbox.

Believe me if it weren't for those ZL1 videos I don't think I would have asked the question (even as someone who takes his A6 to the road-course).

I totally get the purist appeal of a manual-only track car like a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. If you're only building the car in limited numbers as a halo car meant only for those purist then I understand the need for exclusivity.

But if you want this thing to sell and be profitable then there is no harm in having the option available IF the auto is good and strong enough not to devalue or hurt the reputation of the model.

Did the 6L90E meet that criteria for the 5th gen ZL1? YES

Did the 6L80E/6L90E meet that criteria for the 5th gen Z/28? NO

Did the 8L90E meet that criteria for the 6th gen 1LE? NO

Did the 10-speed meet that criteria for the 6th gen ZL1? YES

Will the 10 speed meet that criteria for the 6th gen Z/28? I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

You can what if all you want, but it doesn't. They even designed a 6 speed just for it. Porsche went out of their way to build a car and not use one of the best transmissions available.

I know. But if they offered one of the best transmissions in the world in that car...just merely offered it...would it be any less of a purists car?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I know. But if they offered one of the best transmissions in the world in that car...just merely offered it...would it be any less of a purists car?

In my opinion, yes it would. Apparently they agree.

[TLSTWIN]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

If the 10 speed can handle all day track days and not die an early death, then sure!

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

All the while being faster around a track......I'm all for it.

I personally prefer a manual transmission, but watching/listening to the new new ZL1 around the track has me wondering... depends on performance data forth coming.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by TLSTWIN

I personally prefer a manual transmission, but watching/listening to the new new ZL1 around the track has me wondering... depends on performance data forth coming.

I'm with you..

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

If the 10 speed can handle all day track days and not die an early death, then sure!

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

All the while being faster around a track......I'm all for it.

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I really don't understand automatic hate and bias towards manual if it can be proven that the auto is indeed more efficient, quicker shifting and gets the times better.

Yes, the C7Z A8 has some cooling issues on hard track usage -- those are noted, people are working on it and the C7 has less frontal area to divert air. Camaro has no such issue with that and that GM has 3 front mounted radiators and now 11 HX on the ZL1 (who knows on Z/28) shows they are aware and working to resolve it.

Preferring a stick over an auto just because it feels better or keeps the driver more "connected" in the feel-good department over raw performance data is like intentionally choosing an abacus over a computer for doing complex math. It just doesn't make any sense. Sure, you can choose which beads to move when, but I'd rather a computer do my hardcore math. It'll do it faster and more consistently every time.

If the chosen manual proves to be better, then so be it. But, it should at least be a performance choice.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

IMO,

It's largely due to the "need" for manual fans to have their very own "exclusive car". They need to have something to boast about. Automatics have wiped away the advantages the manuals had on the drag strip, they're rapidly eating away at the "unsuitable for tracking" reputation (the auto ATS-V has been tested to be faster around MRLS than the manual version) etc.

"I have a XYZ because it's manual only, it makes it more rare and a true drivers car" or something along those lines. They'll say things like "it will contaminate the legacy" or "disrespect the heritage" or some other thinly veiled security blanket for their choice. They need to have something more quantifiable than subjective statements like "driver engagement", "truly driving the car", "personality" and "being exciting". They'll run through the same tired old "I'll fall asleep" and "I'd die of boredom" lines that you see in every thread about auto vs manual.

[WHAMMO]

A10=more sales=Camaro stay alive longer=they continu to invest on hipo version. Chose what you want. Minority wants to drive manual and they are slower now.

BTW I'm all about manual cars. Nerver had anything else.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by WHAMMO

A10=more sales=Camaro stay alive longer=they continu to invest on hipo version. Chose what you want. Minority wants to drive manual and they are slower now.

BTW I'm all about manual cars. Nerver had anything else.

And that's why the majority of Camaros will have an optional auto trans. Having one or two models that don't won't kill the Camaro. 99.99% of Camaro owners don't want a car with brakes, aero and tires a Z/28 will come with. They want long lasting all seasons for driving to the grocery store.