[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I would be really surprised if in 20 years there was any difference at all. As mentioned earlier, that is suggesting that 1998 vs a 1999 Camaro would have a difference.

There's no styling difference between the '98 and '99. In fact there is zero difference at all from 1998 until the end of F-body production in 2002. Maybe some different available colors but that is it. Perhaps you meant '97 to '98. Very significant styling difference there, and I think most people prefer the '98-02 style.

The '93-97 front end looked like they tried to carry over the 3rd gen's nose and headlamps awkwardly into the 4th gen's body lines. The switch to composite headlamps in '98 made the car look so much more cohesive.

There is a significant styling difference between the 2016-18 and the 2019. Enough to make a serious difference in the eyes of collectors in the future.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I dont givena crap if they sell millions. In fact I hope they do for the sake of the model. However, I will never like this car no matter what it sells. Its hideous in my view and always will be. If the ZL1 didnt exist, I would buy the six 1LE over the SS as it looks way better. Im glad you like it. Go buy one to keep the model alive.

And I’ll always think of the Challenger as a slab sided barge. But you own one.

[lawguy85]

Originally Posted by RealG

All the 2019 Camaro bashing will end when it sells , all negative comments will seem silly if the 19 sells better. Time will tell that story...Hmmmmm time will tell .

Agreed, time for opinion has passed. It's a Camaro community, people will get '19s in pretty short order, no sense basing them over the head about their choices months after we've seen it. At this point all that matters now is sales. Like it? Put your money where your mouth is, go get one. Don't, cool, sales should reflect that.

FWIW sales absolutely do not correlate to aesthetics, things can be ugly and sell by the boatload (UGGS, Crocs, Ed Hardy, etc.). However, Chevy produces cars, not art. Time will tell if they've designed something that will pull them from a distant third. Given how much of the redesigned went unchanged I personally hope they sell well so the aftermarket expands, literally all any '16-'18 owner who doesn't plan on upgrading should care about at this point in the game.

[yankee]

Originally Posted by RealG

All the 2019 Camaro bashing will end when it sells , all negative comments will seem silly if the 19 sells better. Time will tell that story. Haters can say what they want now because we have no selling data BUT that will change. I’m so glad we have all the predictions in writing like the 5th gen refresh predictions that were 100% wrong and when the sales numbers came out it was dead silence from the haters , will history repeat itself ? Or do people learn from history ? Hmmmmm time will tell .

Lots of other cars sells too, no matter how average and ugly they are. Camaro wasn’t an average car until the refresh, that’s why we’re so outraged. It’s not special / unique anymore. Do you prefer an ugly car just because it sells? Then buy a Camry.

[50MileSmile]

The bigger problem with the ‘19 refresh is it doesn’t go far enough to differentiate itself from the ‘16-‘18 cars. A facelift and a buttlift (plus a trick rearview mirror on the upper-level versions) are hardly revolutionary and, in fact, are barely evolutionary. Chevy should have addressed some of the known (and very visible) issues that potential buyers complain about, like rear vision, trunk access and whatever mechanical things are on the list. As it stands now, people will just look at the front end and say, “Oh, it has a different grill.” There’s nothing on the ‘19s to attract new buyers because the car isn’t new and different and exciting.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

The bigger problem with the ‘19 refresh is it doesn’t go far enough to differentiate itself from the ‘16-‘18 cars. A facelift and a buttlift (plus a trick rearview mirror on the upper-level versions) are hardly revolutionary and, in fact, are barely evolutionary. Chevy should have addressed some of the known (and very visible) issues that potential buyers complain about, like rear vision, trunk access and whatever mechanical things are on the list. As it stands now, people will just look at the front end and say, “Oh, it has a different grill.” There’s nothing on the ‘19s to attract new buyers because the car isn’t new and different and exciting.

This is a refresh of the sixth gen, not a redesign.
They merely did some cosmetic makeover bits, not retool production to change belt lines or cargo openings.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

This is a refresh of the sixth gen, not a redesign.
They merely did some cosmetic makeover bits, not retool production to change belt lines or cargo openings.

Change the cosmetics to hopefully appeal to buyers who weren’t motivated by the 16-18 style.

That excludes yankee of course because he couldn’t find a 16-18 in yellow and therefore drives a Mazda.

[Turkish01]

Originally Posted by fastball

There's no styling difference between the '98 and '99. In fact there is zero difference at all from 1998 until the end of F-body production in 2002. Maybe some different available colors but that is it. Perhaps you meant '97 to '98. Very significant styling difference there, and I think most people prefer the '98-02 style.

The '93-97 front end looked like they tried to carry over the 3rd gen's nose and headlamps awkwardly into the 4th gen's body lines. The switch to composite headlamps in '98 made the car look so much more cohesive.

There is a significant styling difference between the 2016-18 and the 2019. Enough to make a serious difference in the eyes of collectors in the future.

20 years ago is 1998, like he said in the post. I agree though there is a much bigger difference between the 97 model and 98

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

This is a refresh of the sixth gen, not a redesign.
They merely did some cosmetic makeover bits, not retool production to change belt lines or cargo openings.

Exactly - and that is the problem. With sales where they are, the car needs more than a refresh to attract new buyers. Both the Mustang and Challenger have new models and are really promoting them. To the average buyer, there’s not much going on with the Camaro; it’s practically invisible in the marketplace.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

Exactly - and that is the problem. With sales where they are, the car needs more than a refresh to attract new buyers. Both the Mustang and Challenger have new models and are really promoting them. To the average buyer, there’s not much going on with the Camaro; it’s practically invisible in the marketplace.

Yes! I don't get this. A quick little example: I have Chevrolet and Chevrolet Europe on my Instagram. Chevrolet Europe is always posting media on Corevette and Camaro. Chevrolet? Hardly anything at all. Actually, if you look into it, Chevrolet of Europe has a bunch of cool Camaro commercials.

Honestly, if I weren't a car guy, I would have zero idea... ZERO... about what Chevy is doing with the Camaro. Mustang? Challenger/Charger? I sure as hell would.

All said and done, in regards to the 2019: I don't like it. Many don't like it. But there are many who do like it. You won't find me going up to a 2019 Camaro owner and say, "Damn, you bought one? What an ugly car". As none of us should; instead welcome anyone that does to the community.

[Kobra_Klutch]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

The bigger problem with the ‘19 refresh is it doesn’t go far enough to differentiate itself from the ‘16-‘18 cars. A facelift and a buttlift (plus a trick rearview mirror on the upper-level versions) are hardly revolutionary and, in fact, are barely evolutionary. Chevy should have addressed some of the known (and very visible) issues that potential buyers complain about, like rear vision, trunk access and whatever mechanical things are on the list. As it stands now, people will just look at the front end and say, “Oh, it has a different grill.” There’s nothing on the ‘19s to attract new buyers because the car isn’t new and different and exciting.

The 2016-18s look too much like the 5th Gen, the outward visibility is horrible for many, and they cost too damn much. Most camaro owners don't have many opportunities to appreciate the engineering that's been put into the car during their daily commutes. If you haven't lived in Europe like I have, or a place with similar roads, you'll understand why European cars have to pay so much attention to handling. Here in Texas you're going to be hard pressed to find a decent stretch of road to really enjoy the handling capabilities of a track ready Camaro. And most owners will never see a track. Spending the asking price for this car doesn't make a lot of sense for the average buyer. This is partly why the Challenger still sells well after very little cosmetic changes. This current Camaro, 2016 - , is a sales flop regardless of it's performance prowess. The car has very few uses and buyers seemed to be making more car purchases with their needs in mind lately than their wants.

And to put it bluntly, the Camaro just doesn't have the popularity of the Mustang or the Challenger nowadays. I appreciate what Chevy has done with the Camaro as an enthusiast but it's not translating to the masses as the go to car of the segment. I like the refresh better but I will not be buying this model unless I were able to get a used ZL1 for a really good deal.

BTW, the presentation Chevy has put into these cars at different events are lackluster. There's nothing about the events that wow consumers to come take a look at. And when I watched the Camaro team do their thing it looks low budget and thrown together. Their displays look like something you'd see at county fair IMHO. And as I mentioned before on here, I thought it was telling when I noticed their weren't a lot of people around the cars in the posted videos and I received some backlash; cool.

A new front end, bejeweled-tail lamps, and a 10 speed (for the most expensive models) may not be enough to boost sales on a car people haven't been really checking for as is.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Yes! I don't get this. A quick little example: I have Chevrolet and Chevrolet Europe on my Instagram. Chevrolet Europe is always posting media on Corevette and Camaro. Chevrolet? Hardly anything at all. Actually, if you look into it, Chevrolet of Europe has a bunch of cool Camaro commercials.

Honestly, if I weren't a car guy, I would have zero idea... ZERO... about what Chevy is doing with the Camaro. Mustang? Challenger/Charger? I sure as hell would.

All said and done, in regards to the 2019: I don't like it. Many don't like it. But there are many who do like it. You won't find me going up to a 2019 Camaro owner and say, "Damn, you bought one? What an ugly car". As none of us should; instead welcome anyone that does to the community.

Exactly.
GM's marketing/advertising department is incompetent. Had it not been for the internet and youtube I would know nothing about the new Camaro let alone the 1LE.

The people I have to thank for me learning about the Camaro and 1LE are motortrenddotcom...now a ghost town, and RPproductions and his Hyper blue 1LE, who now drives a C6 GS.
Talk on the GTO forums and corvette forums gave me some info like the smaller size and less mass, but had I just been a normal consumer, I'd have no clue.

[50MileSmile]

Here’s a line from the Mazda news release about the 2019 Miata that could/should have been used by Chevrolet to describe the 2019 Camaro (if there were substantive changes to support it, that is): “Numerous customer-driven improvements include ...”

Chevy’s just not trying very hard to sell the Camaro. Having owned a GT 350 and an M2, I think the 1LE is an incredible performance bargain - but will it still be around in 2021?

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

Here’s a line from the Mazda news release about the 2019 Miata that could/should have been used by Chevrolet to describe the 2019 Camaro (if there were substantive changes to support it, that is): “Numerous customer-driven improvements include ...”

Chevy’s just not trying very hard to sell the Camaro. Having owned a GT 350 and an M2, I think the 1LE is an incredible performance bargain - but will it still be around in 2021?

Yes it will still be around , the question will be how many more people will the 7th gen piss off as it moves even further away from a so called muscle car . I love the direction Camaro has been going leaving the 5th gens retro crap behind . Its hard for Chevy to try to sell a car no one needs .