[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

For all other driving (up to and including HPDE in advanced run groups), to remove the need for this skill is to remove the fun without getting any up-side benefit in return. Lose-lose. Mindless convenience on the street? More loss.

Here's a problem I see in general. Tech advances at a swift pace, and new functionality keeps getting added again and again, then many people start wanting said new tech. Now, there are two ways to proceed from here, one is to switch and the other is to augment, and the utterly sad truth is that no matter how superior the latter is to the individual or the customer, it is an expensive proposition compounded with the increasing difficulty and decreasing attractiveness of keeping tech fully controllable by the owner/driver.

Just a few examples to illustrate, why can't I create custom drive modes in the Camaro, tune the suspension or steering feel individually, in absolute terms for each mode, or why can't I freely mix RGB colors for the spectrum lighting? Because making sure to maintain full driver control over the extremely convoluted range of tech features added to the car is expensive. Sure, some people couldn't care less and just want the presets, others still want control, and they are ever more difficult to serve.

And I don't even need to pull any political or legislative angle into the discussion, this alone would be sufficient to ensure the gradual obsolescence of old skills, however much we value them. I for one gave in to the pull of the comfort and WOT shift efficiency of the automatic gearbox, but still have full respect for the old school guy who wants to keep things pristine.

Our V8's may be looking at the same fate soon, it is very expensive to maintain too many powertrain options and I'm not sure how much traction the enthusiast market will have against the tide of turbo 4/hybrid/full electric powertrains. This is one reason I bought my car now and am trying to enjoy it to the fullest

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Here's a problem I see in general. Tech advances at a swift pace, and new functionality keeps getting added again and again, then many people start wanting said new tech.

Sometimes it feels like you're having to learn a new way to drive nails just because other people like the new way better.

it is an expensive proposition compounded with the increasing difficulty and decreasing attractiveness of keeping tech fully controllable by the owner/driver.

Just a few examples to illustrate, why can't I create custom drive modes in the Camaro, tune the suspension or steering feel individually, in absolute terms for each mode, or why can't I freely mix RGB colors for the spectrum lighting? Because making sure to maintain full driver control over the extremely convoluted range of tech features added to the car is expensive. Sure, some people couldn't care less and just want the presets, others still want control, and they are ever more difficult to serve.

I doubt it's a matter of development cost - just a few more lines of code here and there. More likely it's out of concern that customers will get lost in the choices when there's too much to choose from. FWIW for your RGB color mixing, Ford's "MyColor" has been around for at least ten years (my car supposedly has it - I can't ever forget this because my salesman was so over-the-top enthusiastic about it . . . and I've yet to even try it out partly because I might not be able to get back)

And I don't even need to pull any political or legislative angle into the discussion, this alone would be sufficient to ensure the gradual obsolescence of old skills, however much we value them.

I guess ultimately it comes down to what, or how much, any given individual is willing to give up.

I for one gave in to the pull of the comfort and WOT shift efficiency of the automatic gearbox, but still have full respect for the old school guy who wants to keep things pristine.

Appreciated, and I've got nothing against those who make considered decisions to go AT. Companies that expect me to want all the same things that most of their customers want, that's a whole different story.

Our V8's may be looking at the same fate soon, it is very expensive to maintain too many powertrain options and I'm not sure how much traction the enthusiast market will have against the tide of turbo 4/hybrid/full electric powertrains. This is one reason I bought my car now and am trying to enjoy it to the fullest

Understood, very clearly. Your reason was one of mine about 40 years ago, back during round 1 of uncertain V8 future (bought a '79 305/4-barrel/4-speed/sport-suspended Malibu, kept it 33 years).


Norm

[KROLIS]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

or a 2.0l making 1217 rwhp? 0-60 in 1.8 sec?

https://autoweek.com/article/tuners/...#ixzz5P16eCLlb

Probably ALOT cheaper than
http://www.rezvanimotors.com/beast-a...x-black-bird-1

[fkscreennames]

I don't think we'll see Hybrid V8 engines on the SS or GT in the beginning of both new-gens. I think we'll see the Hybrid stuff trickling down to both cars during a mid-cycle refresh where it gives the engineers a good idea on how to use the technology better.

So the V8 will live for now, but the end is coming.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by fkscreennames

I don't think we'll see Hybrid V8 engines on the SS or GT in the beginning of both new-gens. I think we'll see the Hybrid stuff trickling down to both cars during a mid-cycle refresh where it gives the engineers a good idea on how to use the technology better.

So the V8 will live for now, but the end is coming.

I'm gonna take the counterpoint on this one. The 10AT was developed to be hybrid capable. If either company wants to produce a Full Hybrid, the engineering and development work is transmission-centric and would enable whatever engine they want to put in front of it. Right now, GM only puts a V8 in front of the 10AT in Camaro. Mustang puts the 10AT across the board, including V8, so V8 is possible without any additional degree of difficulty than would exist with the EcoBoost.

If either company decides to do a 48V Mild hybrid, the transmission is not really a consideration. Infact, a 48V MHEV could be executed on a manual transmission equipped vehicle if a company wanted to do that.


Taking all that into account, my opinion is that they will both offer FHEV options based on the 10AT.

[ExtremeOnlineStore]

Chevrolet surveys Camaro owners about potential hybrid engine options

We've seen from patent and trademark applications that carmakers tinker with myriad interesting ideas, only some of which make the jump to real life. In August, as discussed on a Camaro6 forum, Chevrolet asked Camaro owners what kind of engine they'd favor if they bought another sports car. Respondents could choose from the four following options, which included the engine's potential cost premium, or None of the Above:



4 Cylinder, 2.7L, Turbo engine, 310 HP, 25 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds - $0
4 Cylinder, 2.0L, Hybrid Turbo engine, 365 HP (total system power), 30 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds - $4,000
8 Cylinder, 6.2L, 455 HP, 20 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 4.0 seconds - $4,000
8 Cylinder, 6.2L, Hybrid engine, 545 HP (total system power), 24 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds - $8,000
The first thing you might notice is that the 3.6-liter V6 doesn't get a chance to make the roster. The second thing is that the options appear to be engines we already know. The 2.7-liter turbo four-cylinder is likely the unit fitted to the Chevrolet Silverado pickup, which also makes 310 hp in that application. Coincidentally, that's the same output as the 2.3-liter four-cylinder EcoBoost in the Ford Mustang. As a new base engine, that would elevate a hybridized version of the current 2.0-liter turbocharged four-pot in today's base Camaro to a $4,000 option. By boosting total output by 90 hp over the current 2.0-liter, the hybrid's 0-60 sprint would decrease by a whole second, and combined fuel economy would increase by up to seven miles per gallon...More

[Rock-It Man]

The 2.0 Turbo hybrid drive will be the way to go for most people, and the V8 hybrid drive will be a monster. Obviously, the V6 is going away soon.

[Bigdog9586]

$8,000 for an engine option? I’ll take a ZL1 for that kind of money.

[samurai]

This news is from August, we have a topic here...

[bigd1276]

Yep. I was surveyed back in August.

[Gunkk]

Hybrid Camaro

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by Bigdog9586

$8,000 for an engine option? I’ll take a ZL1 for that kind of money.

That's not quite how it breaks down. I would expect a premium over a standard V8 option but, not strictly $8k over that price. I would expect that it may add $4k over the base price of a standard V8 offering. I'm assuming this based upon the $4k price being asked for the typical V8 option.

[pyroguy]

If I'm paying $8,000 for an engine it better be the 6.6L Duramax. Throw that in a Camaro and up the hp! However, between those engine options I'll stick with the 6.2 455hp engine.