[TC2018SS1LE]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time

says 500ms to 1 second for a manual driver to shift, 100ms to blink an eye.

So none of you are faster than a modern DCT or even the ZF8HP. Sorry!

Duh

[c4racer]

on the plus side the Tremec 6 speed will last 200K miles easily. Not so much can be said for an auto / DCT - especially when driven hard.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by c4racer

on the plus side the Tremec 6 speed will last 200K miles easily. Not so much can be said for an auto / DCT - especially when driven hard.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time

says 500ms to 1 second for a manual driver to shift, 100ms to blink an eye.

So none of you are faster than a modern DCT or even the ZF8HP. Sorry!

Guess the authors forgot to watch Cleetus McFarland set the 6th gen record back in last August

[s346k]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time

says 500ms to 1 second for a manual driver to shift, 100ms to blink an eye.

they must have been using an eaton 10 speed in a mack truck for that gauge.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Guess the authors forgot to watch Cleetus McFarland set the 6th gen record back in last August

Ol' Cleetus needs to practice his shifting.....

Just sayin....

[USAFS197]

I know I've had my shifting times commented on by tuners and others who have been with me in the car. I don't proclaim to be faster than some of the higher end auto's but I didn't typically use NLS because it pulled timing and was noticeably slower to shift and put you back into power.

Typically, this is my method for what I call "speed shifting" which is I'm sure an ambiguous term.

WOT>100% off throttle+pulling shifter towards neutral>Clutch+Place into next gear+WOT.

This may be a duh moment but it's easier for me to explain while I'm in the car and demonstrating it. I pull the shifter into neutral without hitting the clutch. My right foot is completely in the mode of WOT>100% off throttle>WOT again. My left foot is in the mode of foot to the floor clutch on/off. It took me a while to get the synergy of the shift just right but I literally had to separate all three movements in my head originally and slowly work on it over time.

There are so many manual transmission drivers that swear they can drive a stick well and shift quickly but I rarely find that to be the case. The hardest part about doing it in my 6th gen, was the fly-by-wire throttle. I had to be even quicker with my on/off throttle in order to maintain the same speed as before.

Pray (Brett) commented on my shifting before when I was having issues with traction and told me I should probably consider slowing down my shifting to lessen the drivetrain shock. Instead, we edited the NLS features to be less invasive but still quick enough that it would be faster than utilizing the stock settings and not as much of a shock like when I shift on my own.

[c4racer]

unless I was drag racing,I wouldn't ever shift that way personally - I think it's rather hard on the drivetrain, trans, clutch, everything. I did used to powershift at near WOT my old 3rd gen with a fully built roller motor and superRam and the old Accel DFI computer. Car would run 12.80's all day long at about 106 with a low 1.8 60' time on drag radials, or maybe those were ET Streets - sticky DOT drag tires anyway. Used to do some bracket racing with it - got to be rather consistent - launch was easy in that car - stage at 3500rpm and then do a slow clutch dump and gently floor it and the car would hook and hit a 1.8 almost every time. Good old 3.27 first gear! That was with a 3.50 rear gear if I recall.

[NeverDie]

Originally Posted by s346k

they must have been using an eaton 10 speed in a mack truck for that gauge.

It's more like most people don't actually realize the length of a fraction of a second.

But yeah here on the internet we're all better than science.

[DorkMissile]

I would be willing to say that the .5s to 1s comment is actually pretty normal for day to day driving. However you can’t take the number down to zero. There will be some time that you have to take the load off of the gears in order to allow for the actual gear change. Once you get sub 250ms for a gear change, you are at a point of diminishing returns because you dont have enough gear changes to make a difference.

To think about the old “one-one-hun-dred” method of manual counting down a second, each syllable is .25s, or 250ms.

FYI with HPTuners you could actually log the whole thing - go out and do some manual shifts vs NLS and see what you get. The clutch pedal position can be mapped, and you can even find the point in the pedal travel in which you loose full engagement.

[NeverDie]

I think some people are thinking they can put the gear selector into the next gate much faster than the quoted times.

Of course there is the whole clutch engagement/disengagement thing as well

[TC2018SS1LE]

Originally Posted by DorkMissile

I would be willing to say that the .5s to 1s comment is actually pretty normal for day to day driving. However you can’t take the number down to zero. There will be some time that you have to take the load off of the gears in order to allow for the actual gear change. Once you get sub 250ms for a gear change, you are at a point of diminishing returns because you dont have enough gear changes to make a difference.

To think about the old “one-one-hun-dred” method of manual counting down a second, each syllable is .25s, or 250ms.

FYI with HPTuners you could actually log the whole thing - go out and do some manual shifts vs NLS and see what you get. The clutch pedal position can be mapped, and you can even find the point in the pedal travel in which you loose full engagement.

I know tubers pay for credits to tune the car, but how do I get hptuners? I've never heard of someone using it for anything but tunning :/

[DorkMissile]

Originally Posted by TC2018SS1LE

I know tubers pay for credits to tune the car, but how do I get hptuners? I've never heard of someone using it for anything but tunning :/

With HP Tuners you can monitor and datalog any PID data available to the OBD port. You can even download the ECU tune (however the dealer will see it). The only thing you need credits for is to change anything in the tune and resend to the ECU.

All you need is the hardware - a HPVI2 (the thing you plug into the OBD port - $299), a windows based laptop and the VCM Suite Software on the laptop (free)

[DorkMissile]

Well the nerd in me just couldn't resist - I setup a group of PIDs to monitor that would be shift related, setup some charts to watch and data-logged some shifts both without using NLS and with using it. As far as the shifting goes - tried doing as fast of shifts as I could in both scenarios. Im sure someone out there could do a standard shift faster, but I do a lot of roll racing visits to Mexico so I would at least call myself average.

I setup a PID on the clutch pedal position and monitored to the best of my ability the point in which I could best feel the clutch starting to slip at the top of the travel, which looked like 15-16%. So I established a line on the log at 20% as the point in which the clutch would be engaged (lower than 20%) and disengaged (higher than 20%).

Shifts with standard shifting
1-2 440ms
2-3 390ms
3-4 330ms
1.16 Seconds for all shifts - 387ms average

Shifts using NLS
1-2 360ms
2-3 260ms
3-4 220ms
.84 Seconds for all shifts - 280ms average

So call is a 110ms variance (.11 seconds)

Now I have attached two pictures here from the log screen on my HPT - first is the standard shift log, and the second is the NLS shift. Both 2-3rd gear

There is a line there that is like a dark blue that is trans output shaft RPM. Using a method of measuring from the point in which the trans output stops going up until a point in which it maintains the same RPM or higher for both shifts I got the following info:

Standard 2-3 490ms of trans rpm output loss, NLS was 370ms. So 120ms (.12 seconds).

So with my deduction you are looking at that .1-.15 second advantage per shift.