[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Don't give me that because I'm not buying it. That is just an excuse. My Hellcat has 3.70 gears, M6 trans, and weighs like 4300 pounds and it does not take a long time to go from 180-190. And that is with 707 HP and a suspension that is worse than my 5th gen Camaro had. The 6th Gen M6 ZL1 has a 3.73 final drive ratio and it likewise is not capped. Neither of those cars takes a long time to push to 190 MPH. The 2012 ZL1 with 580 HP and M6 trans has a 3.73 FDR and it goes 184 MPH. LOL!! The GT500 has no logical reason.

Just relaying stuff from the other side and making a guess on it. Looking at gear ratios inside the trans and what not is a bit above my pay grade lol. From what I can see on the GT500 ratios, it pretty much looks like 6th and 7th are pretty much overdrive ratios. So who the hell knows lol.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Do we know if GT500 is using TR-9070A or TR-9070B?

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Looks like A with the 3.14 first gear ratio.

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/TREMEC_TR-9070.pdf

[NW-99SS]

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gt500-feature/

https://www.motortrend.com/news/the-...le-of-200-mph/

I wonder if anyone will back up GM's claim for the ZL1? No one could get close to Ford's...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gt500-feature/

https://www.motortrend.com/news/the-...le-of-200-mph/

I wonder if anyone will back up GM's claim for the ZL1? No one could get close to Ford's...

I don't think anyone needs to. GM showed the method they used to get it so its believable. Ford just said its capable of it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gt500-feature/

https://www.motortrend.com/news/the-...le-of-200-mph/

I wonder if anyone will back up GM's claim for the ZL1? No one could get close to Ford's...

Originally Posted by shaffe

I don't think anyone needs to. GM showed the method they used to get it so its believable. Ford just said its capable of it.

The ZL1 did not get an "official" 200 MPH status because it did not average 200 MPH or more for those 2 runs. It would have had to run in one direction and then the opposite direction and the average of those 2 runs is the official top speed. So their "official" top speed is 198 MPH. However it DID actually do 202 MPH. Of note is that the Hellcat "officially" did 202 MPH.

From what I remember reading is that the 13-14 GT500 never hit 200 MPH at all in any direction during any testing. However it is claimed that the 13-14 GT500 has hit 200 MPH at some point on some track. But I believe the "official" top speed was like 192 or 194 MPH or something. I could be wrong as I read all this quite a while ago.

But what I noted is that Ford was pushing for that 200 MPH status with the 13-14 GT500 even tho they never got it "officially". The car was just not capable of doing it. But I do not remember them ever restricting it to a lower speed when it was perfectly capable of doing 190+like they are limiting the 20 GT500. Shaffe, you mentioned that it could be that it took a long time for them to reach X MPH that they lowered it. However if you ever look at top speed runs you'll notice that it always takes quite some time to get more speed once a car gets closer to it's top speed. So I cannot see that as being a legit answer as to why they limited it. Plus if that was so then Ford would have flat out said it. From what I read Ford claimed they did simulations and that in those sims the 20 GT500 was able to do 200 or whatever. But regardless of how life-like those sims are they still cannot 100% accurately relate to real world driving conditions. So here are a couple quotes that stood out for me.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...500-top-speed/
"The cost associated with engineering a 200-mph car versus a 180-mph car is not insignificant, and it likely allowed for the wiggle room to include such performance-enhancing features as a dual-clutch automatic transmission and a rear wing borrowed from the Mustang GT4 racer."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...speed-limited/
"Why? Well, it costs a lot to engineer a car to do 200 mph, and Ford thought it'd be wiser to engineer a new dual-clutch transmission and develop a high-downforce aero package for the car."


Based on those comments it isn't due to gearing but more so because the car isn't developed well enough for those speeds. Here is another comment that grabbed my attention...

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/14/...500-top-speed/
"That number will also likely leave a healthy buffer between the electronically limited handling and handling at the true limit."

Basically saying the car is not safe at those speeds. At least that is my interpretation. For the record the ZLE has a top speed of 190 MPH and that is with the extreme handling it has and a 3.73 FDR.

[BlaqWhole]

So basically Ford spent the money on the DCT and the aero package for the car and was not able to spend the money needed to engineer it to do more than 180 MPH safely. And that car comes in $10K and $30K more than the ZL1. Or $5K and $25K more than the ZLE which does 190 MPH. So that is where I'm thinking that the GT500 might not handle well enough to beat the ZL1 or ZLE around anything but the straightest tracks they can find and in the coolest Fall weather. The weight is and distribution of that weight is another fault of the GT500. All things considered I don't think the GT500 at it's price and with the markups it will have is a good buy at all.

[bobby35ny]

You can buy a new ZL1 for 59K
Similar equipped base GT500 costs EIGHTY SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

I'll post this every once in a while just to remind people, LOL

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

You can buy a new ZL1 for 59K
Similar equipped base GT500 costs EIGHTY SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

I'll post this every once in a while just to remind people, LOL

I can't get over this.

[BlaqWhole]

So at $87K they couldn't put the money into engineering it to be able to handle more than 180 mph when a Base $60K C8 can go 194 mph. And that price doesn't even include the markups that most assuredly will be applied. And it still won't have a video recorder. What a joke. Will it at least have HUD?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

You can buy a new ZL1 for 59K
Similar equipped base GT500 costs EIGHTY SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

I'll post this every once in a while just to remind people, LOL

Somewhere in this, there has to be a newmoon-esque “Ford has no answer to Chevy’s affordable ZL1” statement.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Somewhere in this, there has to be a newmoon-esque “Ford has no answer to Chevy’s affordable ZL1” statement.

Yes I am here. And yes for $75,495.00 you can get a GT500 w/handling package (how I would spec the car) or for the $59,000.00 you could get the ZL1 (as posted above). I'll take the 500 all day long thank you, but I would also take the 2019 GT350 over the ZL1.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Reaching 200 mph top speed is just bragging. I doubt that anybody would feel safe and comfortable driving above 165 MPH. I reached that speed once in a track driving a Porsche 911 Carrera and didn't feel safe to go above it, anything can go wrong at those speeds.

Neither the Shelby nor the ZL1 are that aerodynamic to keep up at 200 MPH, while a Corvette shape design is more aerodynamic to do it

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes I am here. And yes for $75,495.00 you can get a GT500 w/handling package (how I would spec the car) or for the $59,000.00 you could get the ZL1 (as posted above). I'll take the 500 all day long thank you, but I would also take the 2019 GT350 over the ZL1.

Well then why aren't you in one? Personally I'd take a GT over a GT350 and a GT500. And I'd take a SS over a GT. And I'd take a ZL1 over a SS.

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Reaching 200 mph top speed is just bragging. I doubt that anybody would feel safe and comfortable driving above 165 MPH. I reached that speed once in a track driving a Porsche 911 Carrera and didn't feel safe to go above it, anything can go wrong at those speeds.

Neither the Shelby nor the ZL1 are that aerodynamic to keep up at 200 MPH, while a Corvette shape design is more aerodynamic to do it

As already established it takes a significant amount more engineering and cost to build a car that can go 200 MPH as opposed to 180 MPH. Regardless, this entire hobby is for bragging rights. The slaughter that the GT350R suffered left a lot of Ford folks hurting. So this was Ford's chance to redeem themself after all these years. And what do they get? A 4200 pound $94K car that can't go faster than 180 MPH.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes I am here. And yes for $75,495.00 you can get a GT500 w/handling package (how I would spec the car) or for the $59,000.00 you could get the ZL1 (as posted above). I'll take the 500 all day long thank you, but I would also take the 2019 GT350 over the ZL1.

You forgot to add the dreaded ADM to the $75495.00 , a minimum of 5k which is 80495.00. Huge difference and the GT500 will not perform a whole lot better than the ZL1 and maybe not at all better than the 1LE on a majority of road courses.

[Baldilocks01SS]

But, at the end of the day, and in years to come, the GT500 and GT350 will be more collectible. Sad, but true.