[mjw930]

Originally Posted by Modshack

Bingo!.....Now if they could only get the customers to follow them!

But the 1500 miles below 4000 rpm and speeds below 80 mph is absurd. About all that's going to do is generate a whole fleet of oil burners......

I'll be breaking it in the same way I've broken in the last 20 cars I've bought new, none of which ever had an engine, trans or diff issue or ever burned enough oil to see on the dipstick between changes.

I'll take it easy for the first couple hundred miles then start being a but more aggressive up till 500 - 750 then change the oil and filter and drive it like it was intended to be driven. You are free to do whatever you want, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to treat their own car.

Interesting how the exact same motor and trans when installed in a C7 only has a 500 mile break in (it still has the 1500 miles before track use caution).

In reality, considering the dealer is 85 miles away and we will probably take the long way home, which is over 100 miles, the car will be run in by the time we get it home.

[robbie52]

Really surprised to see a significant difference in break in between an SS and the C7. Are there any differences in the engine? I know that the C7 has a dry-sump oil system, what about the SS? Both a wet and dry sump are available designs on the LT1.

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by robbie52

Really surprised to see a significant difference in break in between an SS and the C7. Are there any differences in the engine? I know that the C7 has a dry-sump oil system, what about the SS? Both a wet and dry sump are available designs on the LT1.

Only the Z51 is dry sump. This is the exact same motor. I suspect it has more to do with the expected audience than any mechanical differences.

550 miles on ours, changed the oil to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum today and will be seeing what it's got tomorrow, just not going to go crazy.

[RicSimonis]

Originally Posted by rikb53

hey - quick question for you guys. is downshifting of any sort bad? I do that from habit but really kinda use the downshift w/ the braking and it's a pretty gentle process. just curious what you guys thought? thanks again for all the good input

+1
Wanted to bump this question. Is there any ill effect of downshifting during braking, either at all or during the break-in period? I've been told that downshifting isn't detrimental unless you're dropping into 2nd at 80 MPH and redlining (not sure if that's possible mechanically). It is potentially operating at its most inefficient, but does it have any long term effects?

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by RicSimonis

+1
Wanted to bump this question. Is there any ill effect of downshifting during braking, either at all or during the break-in period? I've been told that downshifting isn't detrimental unless you're dropping into 2nd at 80 MPH and redlining (not sure if that's possible mechanically). It is potentially operating at its most inefficient, but does it have any long term effects?

No downside at all as long as you aren't shocking the drivetrain. In fact, engine braking, which provides load to the drivetrain opposite acceleration is a key component to properly running in the motor, trans and diff.

Don't get hung up on the how, just drive the car as you normally would without flogging it and vary the RPM's and you're good to go.

[Glen e]

Originally Posted by mjw930

Don't get hung up on the how, just drive the car as you normally would without flogging it and vary the RPM's and you're good to go.

everyone new and scared about break in, read mark's comment about 1000 times.....

[quikag]

My ZR1 had an official 500 mile break-in. Rest assured, I wouldn't be easy on the new SS beyond that mileage. 1,500 is purely to keep people from wrecking them and reducing warranty claims by artificially subjecting the car to an easier life. Honestly several heat cycles and a few hundred miles to bed in the brakes and drivetrain and it should be ready to rock. Another good idea is to do some full throttle 3-4th gear in gear pulls from say 2,500rpm to 4,000 rpm to get everything to seat in the engine.

Think about all of these cars being test driven. How many blow ups have you heard on the LT1? There have been some due to manufacturing defects, but these powertrain are very stout.

At 300 now, hope to get the other 200 today and it's party time. Final thought, most of y'all know this, but ALWAYS warm up the engine and drivetrain by driving around at least 5-10 minutes before running it hard.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by quikag

At 300 now, hope to get the other 200 today and it's party time. Final thought, most of y'all know this, but ALWAYS warm up the engine and drivetrain by driving around at least 5-10 minutes before running it hard.

Truth. This is good practice. I watch the oil temp and always easy on it until it hot. Then it's game on

[crabman]

Originally Posted by Emoto

Manufacturers set break-in procedures that result in the fewest warranty claims.

Originally Posted by Modshack

Bingo!.....Now if they could only get the customers to follow them!

I'm an engineer. There is no benefit to ring seal that can be attained after the car has left the factory. No directed driving style can either make bad ring seal better or cause you to lose the ring seal you had. It cannot be altered in any way by a buyer through any kind of directed driving style in any way. It's been years since you could even get a diesel engine that could have ring seal issues and that includes the commercial sector where engines are ran on a load cell before leaving the factory. There are a few exceptions to this such as very large engines which even when new are assembled in place and first ran on site. That leaves me the only large area where ring seal is affected by initial startup operation. That is on brand new rebuilds that have not been run. The largest sector in that business is the marine industry where engines are normally "in-framed" in place rather than removed from the vessel. In this case the in frame will not be warrantied unless started up by their own technicians who will run it for about 1 to 2 hours to make sure the load is within their specs to achieve ring seal. If it is not done at that time the engine will be an "oil burner" and nothing can get it back until the next in frame.

None of that applies to this car, ring seal has already been attained at the factory and no of us can do anything to change it by any directed operational parameters of any kind.

While there are other things the two primary break in operation needs are the trans and diff. The brakes also need it but they typically wont be hurt by any kind of operation that includes taking it easy in the first miles. The trans and diff will overheat if too much load is applied before the surfaces have mated. This causes the oil to overheat leading to all the usual lubrication failures that can happen and that heat will make the gears softer with the practical loss out on the road being a weaker gear and more gear whine/noise.

Here is a little cut and paste...

The greatest damage to a new gear set results from running for ten minutes or more during the first 500 miles when the oil is very hot. Any heavy use or overloading while the oil is extremely hot will cause it to break down and allow irreversible damage to the ring & pinion. In order to make them run cooler and quieter, new gears are lapped at the factory. However, they are not lapped under the same pressures that driving creates. The loads generated while driving force any microscopic high spots on the gear teeth back into the surface of the metal. This is called "work hardening". Work hardening is similar to forging in the way that it compresses the metal molecules into a very compact and hard formation. This can only be accomplished if the metal surfaces are lubricated and the gear temperature stays cool enough that the molecular structure does not change. If the temperature of the metal gets hot enough to change the molecular structure, it will soften the surface instead of hardening it. This may seen like a balancing act, but it all happens easily and passively as long as the oil keeps the gear cool while it is breaking in.

End cut and paste...

If you talk to makers of various gears they usually spec heat cycling them, low loads during initial operation, varied load during initial operation, etc. It's been a few years since I did a gear change but I recall Motive having the break in at 3 heat/cooling cycles followed by low load and eventually changing the oil at 500. Those were the good gears (hardened, shot peened, etc) which are a little more fussy than the softer stuff that comes in this car. While various gear/transmission makers spec different break in procedures they all follow something similar and none of them go anywhere close to 1500 miles. The important part is that by 500 miles just like ring seal either the damage is done or it is not. Nothing you can do will change it afterwards either for better or worse.

So why do they spec out to 1500 miles when no directed operation could improve break in further? An easy one. Cars no matter what the mileage on them break less often when they are not being flogged and more often when they are. By going 1500 miles on break in they reduce the total number of warranty claims with a few words. It's a means of cutting costs.

[samsumon]

Originally Posted by crabman

By going 1500 miles on break in they reduce the total number of warranty claims with a few words. It's a means of cutting costs.

Holy shit.....


By telling the masses to take it easy for 1500 miles, they essentially could be saving millions due to cars lasting a little longer POST warranty..



This ****ing blew my mind.

[916camaro]

Originally Posted by Nicul15

Truth. This is good practice. I watch the oil temp and always easy on it until it hot. Then it's game on

Does the Camaro have a oil temperature gauge i have only seen oil pressure

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by 916camaro

Does the Camaro have a oil temperature gauge i have only seen oil pressure

it does. you might have to make it available in the gauge preferences

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by crabman

I'm an engineer. There is no benefit to ring seal that can be attained after the car has left the factory. No directed driving style can either make bad ring seal better or cause you to lose the ring seal you had. It cannot be altered in any way by a buyer through any kind of directed driving style in any way. It's been years since you could even get a diesel engine that could have ring seal issues and that includes the commercial sector where engines are ran on a load cell before leaving the factory. There are a few exceptions to this such as very large engines which even when new are assembled in place and first ran on site. That leaves me the only large area where ring seal is affected by initial startup operation. That is on brand new rebuilds that have not been run. The largest sector in that business is the marine industry where engines are normally "in-framed" in place rather than removed from the vessel. In this case the in frame will not be warrantied unless started up by their own technicians who will run it for about 1 to 2 hours to make sure the load is within their specs to achieve ring seal. If it is not done at that time the engine will be an "oil burner" and nothing can get it back until the next in frame.

None of that applies to this car, ring seal has already been attained at the factory and no of us can do anything to change it by any directed operational parameters of any kind.

While there are other things the two primary break in operation needs are the trans and diff. The brakes also need it but they typically wont be hurt by any kind of operation that includes taking it easy in the first miles. The trans and diff will overheat if too much load is applied before the surfaces have mated. This causes the oil to overheat leading to all the usual lubrication failures that can happen and that heat will make the gears softer with the practical loss out on the road being a weaker gear and more gear whine/noise.

Here is a little cut and paste...

The greatest damage to a new gear set results from running for ten minutes or more during the first 500 miles when the oil is very hot. Any heavy use or overloading while the oil is extremely hot will cause it to break down and allow irreversible damage to the ring & pinion. In order to make them run cooler and quieter, new gears are lapped at the factory. However, they are not lapped under the same pressures that driving creates. The loads generated while driving force any microscopic high spots on the gear teeth back into the surface of the metal. This is called "work hardening". Work hardening is similar to forging in the way that it compresses the metal molecules into a very compact and hard formation. This can only be accomplished if the metal surfaces are lubricated and the gear temperature stays cool enough that the molecular structure does not change. If the temperature of the metal gets hot enough to change the molecular structure, it will soften the surface instead of hardening it. This may seen like a balancing act, but it all happens easily and passively as long as the oil keeps the gear cool while it is breaking in.

End cut and paste...

If you talk to makers of various gears they usually spec heat cycling them, low loads during initial operation, varied load during initial operation, etc. It's been a few years since I did a gear change but I recall Motive having the break in at 3 heat/cooling cycles followed by low load and eventually changing the oil at 500. Those were the good gears (hardened, shot peened, etc) which are a little more fussy than the softer stuff that comes in this car. While various gear/transmission makers spec different break in procedures they all follow something similar and none of them go anywhere close to 1500 miles. The important part is that by 500 miles just like ring seal either the damage is done or it is not. Nothing you can do will change it afterwards either for better or worse.

So why do they spec out to 1500 miles when no directed operation could improve break in further? An easy one. Cars no matter what the mileage on them break less often when they are not being flogged and more often when they are. By going 1500 miles on break in they reduce the total number of warranty claims with a few words. It's a means of cutting costs.

Great post!

[crabman]

Let me just say... I typed that on my phone while waiting for a meeting. I kept trying to cut it shorter to save time but it is hard to explain without going into a little more detail. Lesson learned, don't respond to a thread with what will end up being a long post on your phone, lots of tying errors. O_o