Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis


BeckyD @ James Martin Chevy


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2017, 01:53 PM   #15
sub_ETCS_ret

 
sub_ETCS_ret's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: WA
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paully104 View Post
Good morning folks,

About a month ago I installed the BMR upper/lower trailing arms along with the upper control arm on my SS. I went for these modifications for one primary reason. When laying down a decent amount of power to full throttle I was getting some serious wheel hop causing the cars rear end to sway pretty hard when launching. I initially thought the issue was the stock tires and was going to trade them out. After the installation, the difference was night and day. I have 0 issues going WOT on stock tires and I honestly feel a good deal safer with how planted the rear end is. In regards to NVH(noise, vibration, harshness) I would say that each setting represents a step up now. Touring feels like sport, sport feels like track, and track feels like track+ or one of those cheap back massagers if you're on some poor streets.

I know this is a short review but I wanted to write this as I know people like myself check out these posts to determine what they want to do to their car. I talked with BMR and Texas Track Works in regards to what I wanted to accomplish and these parts did the trick. If you have any questions I can attempt to answer.
Did you do the install yourself?
__________________
"Submariners are a bunch of intelligent misfits that somehow seem to get along, understand each other and work well together." - overheard from a surface officer explaining to another sailor about Submariners
sub_ETCS_ret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 01:58 PM   #16
Paully104
Novice Driver
 
Paully104's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS Silver
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tx
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub_ETCS_ret View Post
Did you do the install yourself?
As terrible as an idea as it was I actually did it with a friend who's a mechanic and I made a ton of stupid mistakes, it was fun though.
Paully104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 02:06 PM   #17
sub_ETCS_ret

 
sub_ETCS_ret's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: WA
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paully104 View Post
As terrible as an idea as it was I actually did it with a friend who's a mechanic and I made a ton of stupid mistakes, it was fun though.
How long did it take you? Trying to plan my day around this if I do it.
__________________
"Submariners are a bunch of intelligent misfits that somehow seem to get along, understand each other and work well together." - overheard from a surface officer explaining to another sailor about Submariners
sub_ETCS_ret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 02:08 PM   #18
Paully104
Novice Driver
 
Paully104's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS Silver
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tx
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub_ETCS_ret View Post
How long did it take you? Trying to plan my day around this if I do it.
For 2 people that had no idea what they were doing, 5 hours. I imagine someone with a proper setup and knowledge could get it done in 2~3 or even less.
Paully104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 02:14 PM   #19
BMR Suspension
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyHill View Post
I've been on the fence with these because it seems to me the arms really only locate the wheel and define the geometry of suspension movement. All wheel hop should originate from rotational movement of the diff case transferred by the axle due to soft diff mounting in that axis of rotation.

Something like an old-school long-arm "pinion snubber" seems like the most efficient solution but I haven't snooped around the area to see if this is doable, or even to see what the diff mounting looks like. The size and the mass of the subframe/bushings shouldn't be a component because the hop frequency would be too high.

Any thoughts on this theory?
I don't know how I missed this but I did... This information is not overly accurate.

Soft cradle and differential bushings are huge contributors to wheelhop. Yes the frequency of wheelhop is much high because the slip and grip of the tires is happening much quicker that the oscillation of the cradle/diff bushings, but that oscillation is in many cases the initial cause of wheelhop. Beyond that, once wheelhop starts, the cradle and diff are moving around so much that the tires can't physically get traction for long enough to drive out of it. When you limit or eliminate that cradle or differential oscillation from soft bushings, there is less movement to initiate wheelhop, and less oscillation to prolong it. You also have less movement in the links because the entire assembly is moving less. And you get less dynamic rear wheel alignment change, which gives you a more consistent tire contact patch. All of this leads to more traction.

The downside is, when you add harder cradle and differential bushings, performance goes up but so does NVH. This means more noise in the driver's compartment.

Trailing arms help in a different way. The factory links are made from very thin stamped steel with soft bushings. These links are so flimsy the you can pretty much twist them by hand. Imagine how they move with the amount of torque these cars make... By adding rigidity to the links and firmer bushing, you reduce the link and bushing deflection. This reduces rear spindle rotation as power is applied to the chassis. When the spindle rotates (similar to wheelhop in its speed and frequency) there is spring back due to the rubber bushings. This can cause the tire to load and unload, causing wheelhop. The more solidly you can mount the links, the less spindle rotation and wheelhop there will be.
BMR Suspension is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 02:30 PM   #20
sub_ETCS_ret

 
sub_ETCS_ret's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: WA
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paully104 View Post
For 2 people that had no idea what they were doing, 5 hours. I imagine someone with a proper setup and knowledge could get it done in 2~3 or even less.
Thanks man!

Sent from my VS500 using Tapatalk
__________________
"Submariners are a bunch of intelligent misfits that somehow seem to get along, understand each other and work well together." - overheard from a surface officer explaining to another sailor about Submariners
sub_ETCS_ret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 09:58 PM   #21
Sunsnare98
 
Drives: 2017 camaro ss
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Miami
Posts: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Suspension View Post
I don't know how I missed this but I did... This information is not overly accurate.

Soft cradle and differential bushings are huge contributors to wheelhop. Yes the frequency of wheelhop is much high because the slip and grip of the tires is happening much quicker that the oscillation of the cradle/diff bushings, but that oscillation is in many cases the initial cause of wheelhop. Beyond that, once wheelhop starts, the cradle and diff are moving around so much that the tires can't physically get traction for long enough to drive out of it. When you limit or eliminate that cradle or differential oscillation from soft bushings, there is less movement to initiate wheelhop, and less oscillation to prolong it. You also have less movement in the links because the entire assembly is moving less. And you get less dynamic rear wheel alignment change, which gives you a more consistent tire contact patch. All of this leads to more traction.

The downside is, when you add harder cradle and differential bushings, performance goes up but so does NVH. This means more noise in the driver's compartment.

Trailing arms help in a different way. The factory links are made from very thin stamped steel with soft bushings. These links are so flimsy the you can pretty much twist them by hand. Imagine how they move with the amount of torque these cars make... By adding rigidity to the links and firmer bushing, you reduce the link and bushing deflection. This reduces rear spindle rotation as power is applied to the chassis. When the spindle rotates (similar to wheelhop in its speed and frequency) there is spring back due to the rubber bushings. This can cause the tire to load and unload, causing wheelhop. The more solidly you can mount the links, the less spindle rotation and wheelhop there will be.
In your opinion... can you tell us what parts to start with one by one to cure wheel hop and gain more traction? These are my plans.

1. Cradle bushings
2. Upper/Lower trailing arms
3. Upper control arms

I was planing on doing it in that order, although I'm thinking about skipping the cradle bushings.
Sunsnare98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 08:24 PM   #22
Hawk397
Sparky
 
Drives: 2017 50th Coupe / 2017 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Aurora, TX
Posts: 130
Bump. Good thread!
Hawk397 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2017, 10:40 AM   #23
reeper
 
reeper's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 HD D/A, 2015 Z06, 2016 2SS
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Central WI
Posts: 503
In for updates
__________________
2016 Hyper Blue A8 2SS
GM Bodykit: Black
MRR 017 wheels: Black
OEM Blackout tail-lamps
OEM SEMA Grille
35% window tint
Black glow-tie
BMR Suspension (Pretty much everything)
ACS rear-deck spoiler
Rotofab CAI
Lolly-pop red rotors by Madison Powder Coating
reeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:41 PM   #24
SGDM

 
SGDM's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,422
Stock lower arms - wheel hop. BMR lower arms - No wheel hop. Easy to install too.
__________________


Who Dares...Wins
SGDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 09:39 PM   #25
Purekoryo
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: DFW
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGDM View Post
Stock lower arms - wheel hop. BMR lower arms - No wheel hop. Easy to install too.
Do you have to get wheel alignment after the upper and lower trailing arms swapped?
Purekoryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 10:28 PM   #26
PolynesianPowerhouse
Big Samoan ina little car
 
PolynesianPowerhouse's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 camaro
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tofiga Island
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purekoryo View Post
Do you have to get wheel alignment after the upper and lower trailing arms swapped?
Anytime you remove any major suspension component, in the very least you get an alignment check.
__________________
Don't sit around and watch everyone else live YOUR dreams...DO SUMPT'N

When I see posts asking "whats the best intake, exhaust, etc" .... the answer to that is like a grandfather telling his grandkids "if you put salt on a birds tail, it'll let you catch it" #ThinkAboutIt

"Winning Tip: Don't take my (or anyone else's) word for it. GO TEST IT!" - Dennis Grant
PolynesianPowerhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2017, 06:42 AM   #27
F1FTY

 
Drives: 2018 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: At the Dealership
Posts: 1,019
Upgrading from SS to 1LE trailing arms made a similar difference like OP talks about but without the NVH in different modes. (Only change to the arm is the bushing itself).
F1FTY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2017, 09:36 AM   #28
BMR Suspension
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsnare98 View Post
In your opinion... can you tell us what parts to start with one by one to cure wheel hop and gain more traction? These are my plans.

1. Cradle bushings
2. Upper/Lower trailing arms
3. Upper control arms

I was planing on doing it in that order, although I'm thinking about skipping the cradle bushings.
I apologize for missing this post... i never saw it so it never got answered.

If it were me (and this is how we normally try to steer people), I'd do upper and lower trailing arms first, upper control arms second, cradle bushings (lock outs) third. The reason being, the trailing arms make a very significant different with little change in NVH. The same with the upper control arms, but that is a heavier link from the factory, so it isn't as crucial. The cradle bushings (lock out kit or replacement bushing) is going to make a more noticeable increase in NVH, but it isn't horrible IMHO. When you get into differential bushings yo will see a big increase in performance, but a very large increase in NVH. Most times we do not recommend much in the diff department unless the user is looking for max performance or noise is not an issue.

I hope this helps! Let me know if you need any more help.
BMR Suspension is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.