[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Just wondering, if start/stop is all that benign, saves gas, mechanically reliable, and misunderstood, etc., why do a lot of cars have a switch giving the owner the option to turn it off?

My guess is a lot of buyers would avoid start/stop like the plague if they had to live with it full time.

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

Or dealing with constant noises and vibration.

I’ve had a 2016 Cruze with S/S for almost two years now. It’s almost due for turn in on a 2-yr lease. I notice more now when it DOESN’T turn off. I start looking for A/C being on max or rear defrost on or is it below 42 degrees. It doesn’t come with a turn off switch. The only GM vehicles with a turn off switch are Cadillacs, and as I’ve learned in this thread, Buick Envision.

As for noise and vibration...the restart is NOTHING LIKE when you crank the car up first thing in the morning. It’s less vibration than you experience when you blip your throttle.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’ve had a 2016 Cruze with S/S for almost two years now. It’s almost due for turn in on a 2-yr lease. I notice more now when it DOESN’T turn off. I start looking for A/C being on max or rear defrost on or is it below 42 degrees. It doesn’t come with a turn off switch. The only GM vehicles with a turn off switch are Cadillacs, and as I’ve learned in this thread, Buick Envision.

As for noise and vibration...the restart is NOTHING LIKE when you crank the car up first thing in the morning. It’s less vibration than you experience when you blip your throttle.

But why should a consumer HAVE to deal with it at all? Other brands offer defeat switches. My 2018 CR-V lets me program all sorts of individual preferences and my wife has her own set and the car automatically switches based on which fob walks up to the car. The seats even move automatically. If the CR-V had start/stop that couldn’t be disabled, I wouldn’t have bought it. The 2019 Envision offers a button BECAUSE people complained. Not because GM decided to be gracious. It’s not on the 2018. ANY noise and vibration can be annoying. Some people can learn to ignore it like you have, but to others it’s unacceptable. A simple defeat switch allows the people who actually spent their money on it to decide. Shame GM likes to forget about the buyer. As usual.

[Silver14]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

But why should a consumer HAVE to deal with it at all? Other brands offer defeat switches. My 2018 CR-V lets me program all sorts of individual preferences and my wife has her own set and the car automatically switches based on which fob walks up to the car. The seats even move automatically. If the CR-V had start/stop that couldn’t be disabled, I wouldn’t have bought it. The 2019 Envision offers a button BECAUSE people complained. Not because GM decided to be gracious. It’s not on the 2018. ANY noise and vibration can be annoying. Some people can learn to ignore it like you have, but to others it’s unacceptable. A simple defeat switch allows the people who actually spent their money on it to decide. Shame GM likes to forget about the buyer. As usual.

Sounds like buyer's remorse. If it was that big of a deal, do more due dilligence prior to the purchase. If you don't like something, don't buy it.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by Silver14

Sounds like buyer's remorse. If it was that big of a deal, do more due dilligence prior to the purchase. If you don't like something, don't buy it.

What a wonderfully incitefull comment. Please continue to share your wisdom with us. If you read what you quoted, which you obviously didn’t, I said that very same thing. Had the vehicle I bought had start/stop, which it doesn’t, I wouldn’t have bought it. If all the manufacturers insist on putting it on new cars, I’m lobbying for a simple defeat switch to allow the consumer to decide. I look forward to your posts later today on the China trade talks and North Korean disarmament.

[Silver14]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

What a wonderfully incitefull comment. Please continue to share your wisdom with us. If you read what you quoted, which you obviously didn’t, I said that very same thing. Had the vehicle I bought had start/stop, which it doesn’t, I wouldn’t have bought it. If all the manufacturers insist on putting it on new cars, I’m lobbying for a simple defeat switch to allow the consumer to decide. I look forward to your posts later today on the China trade talks and North Korean disarmament.

The last half of the quoted comment seems like it is complaining about the 2018 Buick your father bought. If it was so important to be able to disable the start/stop, more due dilligence should have been done.

If you'd like more of my wisdom, I suggest spell check when trying to be an internet smartass. The word is insightful.

[JerTM]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m pretty certain that what you had was a Saturn Vue Greenline, which is not a Stop Start, but is actually a Belt Alternator Starter (BAS) mild hybrid system. The Alternator and Starter are integrated into one unit that is powered by the hybrid battery. That is the battery you were no doubt trying to not replace. It is very similar to the first Honda Civic hybrids, except for on the Honda, the hybrid motor was placed on the back of the engine, (Flywheel Alternator Starter or FAS) not on the accessory drive like a BAS.

I appreciate your input, I've been a GM tech for some time now and I fully understand the difference in the two systems. I was simply comparing their ability to stop the engine and start it. IMO the BAS system was better in that regard.

[Silver14]

Will the L3B end up in the Camaro?

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by Silver14

The last half of the quoted comment seems like it is complaining about the 2018 Buick your father bought. If it was so important to be able to disable the start/stop, more due dilligence should have been done.

If you'd like more of my wisdom, I suggest spell check when trying to be an internet smartass. The word is insightful.

That’s the problem with the iPhone. It doesn’t always catch talk to text errors.

He insisted on buying a GM when there are FAR better options out there for the money. Never mind the horrible dealer experience. I’m lobbying for the inclusion of defeat-able start/stop since the actual GM people in this thread seem to think it’s fine. It’s not. If it was so unobtrusive, they wouldn’t have listened to the complaints and added it for 2019. I have zero buyers remorse. My Honda is light years better than the Equinox. Again, not including a far, far greater dealer. If people don’t demand better, and hold manufacturers accountable, we get GM circa 1974. Buy our car, we know better than you, and if you don’t like it tough. We all saw how great that turned out.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by JerTM

I appreciate your input, I've been a GM tech for some time now and I fully understand the difference in the two systems. I was simply comparing their ability to stop the engine and start it. IMO the BAS system was better in that regard.

Got I it. You’re right, the BAS system that GM used on the Vue, the first Malibu hybrids and a couple other vehicles that my retired brain won’t let me remember were considered to be the smoothest restart systems on the market. I didn’t know you were a GM tech or I would not have assumed you didn’t know the difference between a hybrid and a stop/start system. Most people do not know the difference.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

But why should a consumer HAVE to deal with it at all? Other brands offer defeat switches. My 2018 CR-V lets me program all sorts of individual preferences and my wife has her own set and the car automatically switches based on which fob walks up to the car. The seats even move automatically. If the CR-V had start/stop that couldn’t be disabled, I wouldn’t have bought it. The 2019 Envision offers a button BECAUSE people complained. Not because GM decided to be gracious. It’s not on the 2018. ANY noise and vibration can be annoying. Some people can learn to ignore it like you have, but to others it’s unacceptable. A simple defeat switch allows the people who actually spent their money on it to decide. Shame GM likes to forget about the buyer. As usual.

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

That’s the problem with the iPhone. It doesn’t always catch talk to text errors.

He insisted on buying a GM when there are FAR better options out there for the money. Never mind the horrible dealer experience. I’m lobbying for the inclusion of defeat-able start/stop since the actual GM people in this thread seem to think it’s fine. It’s not. If it was so unobtrusive, they wouldn’t have listened to the complaints and added it for 2019. I have zero buyers remorse. My Honda is light years better than the Equinox. Again, not including a far, far greater dealer. If people don’t demand better, and hold manufacturers accountable, we get GM circa 1974. Buy our car, we know better than you, and if you don’t like it tough. We all saw how great that turned out.

I wasn’t there for the decision making to add the defeat button to the Envision but I would bet you a dollar to a donut that the change was made specifically for the Chinese market (where Envision is built and most of them sold) and not because customers in the US complained.

When I was at GM, I was one of the biggest advocates of GM adding automatic transmission stop/start (ATSS) systems to vehicles. Pressed this for years to Engineering leadership. Got a lot of pushback. When it became evident that it would be needed to achieve future fuel economy mandates and that it was one of the lowest “cost of compliance” technologies available, Engineering went at it hard and developed a configuration that works more seamlessly than any other ATSS coming to market. Engineering felt it was so smooth in operation that they would offer it without a defeat switch. I advocated against that. This is when the first ATSS applications (BMW 5-Series) were coming to market. Manual transmission stop/start (MTSS) had been in Europe for years by then.

We got hold of a 5-Series with ATSS and test drove it. It sucked. We pointed that out to Engineering and they basically said “we got this”. Part of the issue is, EPA only gives partial credit for having ATSS if it can be turned off. GM had factored in the full impact / credit allowance for having ATSS. To have that credit cut in half because of a button wasn’t gonna cut it, so the focus was to make the system so inobtrusive that customers wouldn’t object. I and my team kept arguing against this approach to the point where an Engineering Director pulled me aside before a meeting on the topic and said “Look, we get it. You want the button. It’s not gonna happen, so let it go. Come to Milford Friday [before another meeting on this topic] and drive the mule.” I did. It was awesome. From that point on I and my team stood down on the topic. That is the system that launched on the Malibu. Every press review I’ve read on the Malibu talks about how seamless the ATSS is.

[90503]

Here's a GM authority article on start-stop....

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/...icles-by-2020/

I agree you should do your homework on any model you are considering buying....Looking at the websites for Chevy, they aren't really advertising or announcing which models have it...I think the mind-set should be assume that it does have it unless you can research and find out it doesn't....

Again, I'll make the case for my beloved Impala, get one with a v-6 while you can...No start-stop, and it's the only Chevy sedan with a v-6...lol...

[Martinjlm]

I guess I should have also noted that most cars already have an ATSS defeat switch. It’s called Rear Defrost. On some vehicles it works every time, on others most of the time. Depends on whether ATSS is enabled by a separate battery. One of the factors that instructs the car to stop the engine or not is battery draw. If there is a significant battery draw (rear defrost and AC are two of the biggest draws) the ATSS will be bypassed. A lot of people are on to the AC, but some systems now cut the AC and then resume the AC. I haven’t seen one yet that turns off the rear defrost.

[Royal Tiger]

Thanks Jim.

[JerTM]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Got I it. You’re right, the BAS system that GM used on the Vue, the first Malibu hybrids and a couple other vehicles that my retired brain won’t let me remember were considered to be the smoothest restart systems on the market. I didn’t know you were a GM tech or I would not have assumed you didn’t know the difference between a hybrid and a stop/start system. Most people do not know the difference.

No hard feelings, I realize it sounded like I was being a jerk and I appologize. I have yet to see any mechanical/electrical issues with the start/stop. It's a very reliable system. Maybe I'll make some sort of sound shield for the starter lol. I do have to say one thing. Cars being SOOOO quite while running is a pain for me. Customers are complaining about noises I can't correct due to them being normal noises from drivetrain and suspension simply because they can hear it over the engine. Not looking forward to all electric haha. I feel for the engineers, that can't be easy either.