[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

... I have never owned a Mustang before this one. I've owned 4 cars my entire life. My first two cars were GM muscle cars (1987 Camaro Z28 and modified 1995 Trans Am) that I drove for a combined 12 years between the two of them...

... Now, I never even considered buying a Mustang until October 2018, ... Prior to that moment, I had decided I was going to replace my 2007 MazdaSpeed3 that I had for 11 years...

... I admit I never test drove a 6th gen SS...

.. I do like the Camaro, always have. But I simply like my Mustang better. Nothing wrong w/ that..

You can drive whatever you like, but I can clearly see how people on a Camaro forum can bust your balls for saying you like the Mustang better and you admit you never even drove a 6th gen SS.

On top of that, your only previous Camaro experience was with an '87 and '95? I had an '84 Camaro; not even in the same ballpark. What do you expect?

[Brudda*Termite]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

You can drive whatever you like, but I can clearly see how people on a Camaro forum can bust your balls for saying you like the Mustang better and you admit you never even drove a 6th gen SS.

On top of that, your only previous Camaro experience was with an '87 and '95? I had an '84 Camaro; not even in the same ballpark. What do you expect?

This was me, I bought Mustang after Mustang and talked trash about Camaros and hadn't driven one since the early 80s. Then, I bought a Gen 6 2SS 18 months ago and my hypocrisy was exposed by the stupid smile on my face!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

You can drive whatever you like, but I can clearly see how people on a Camaro forum can bust your balls for saying you like the Mustang better and you admit you never even drove a 6th gen SS.

On top of that, your only previous Camaro experience was with an '87 and '95? I had an '84 Camaro; not even in the same ballpark. What do you expect?

I have no problem with people on a Camaro forum busting my balls - it's part of the fun coming here. But like I said, once I drove the Mustang I didn't even have the desire to drive the SS.

And I realize the 3rd and 4th gen F bodies are nowhere close to a 6th gen SS, obviously. I was pointing that out that I have a history w/ them and always loved them. To dispel the myth that I somehow hate the Camaros.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

When you claim that your 5.0 is as quick as a ZL1, you are using some kind of onbard timer toy to generate the 'times', correct? Have you actually run the car on a real dragstrip and compared it's times to the Camaros at the same track? Because I have seen the 2018 A10 Mustangs on the dragstrip, and the truth is that they are still a little behind the SS Camaro stock vs stock. This means so far behind a ZL1 that it's not even funny. Therefore, the idea that a few bolt-ons has now made your car equal to a ZL1 is ridiculous. I understand that you think it's really fast, many Mustang fanboys are obviously fooled by the louder exhaust and the higher redline of the Coyote. But actual timeslips tell a different tale. To be clear, not criticizing your choice of a Mustang, personal preference is fine and nobody can tell someone else what to buy. What I am criticizing though, is how you keep trying on this forum to prop the Mustang up above the Camaro.

BTW I do have experience with doing bolt-ons, and I can tell you that an A10 5.0 with catback, CAI, E85 tune, and drag radials ran much slower times than my SS did when it had very few bolt-ons. So I have an understanding of what mods do. Will point out that while you have a ported intake manifold and ported throttle body, this guy had an E85 tune, so don't think that you have a lot more power than he did. If you looked at it honestly, you would understand that if the modded Mustang was actually accelerating as hard as the stock ZL1, then the drag tires should have made it quicker than the stock ZL1 (via a better launch then an equal rate of acceleration), but the fact that it ran much slower times instead shows that the modded 5.0 was still not really equal in rate of acceleration to the stock ZL1.

Yes, I time w/ the OBDLink MX+ plugged into the OBDII port. I wouldn't call it a "toy". All I know is that the times don't lie. 20-70 mph in 3.28 seconds (ran prior to the much lighter wheels). If those aren't accurate, then I guess I'd be proven wrong but it's all I have to go off of. But they are likely accurate enough to show that my car is somehow at least in the ballpark of a stock ZL1. For what it's worth, on another separate run, I did 30-70 mph in 2.63 seconds (again, before the lightweight wheels). MotorTrend's test of the A10 ZL1 yielded 30-70 mph in 2.7 seconds. Now, that even shocked me.

I'd be more than happy to go up against a local ZL1 in a dig and/ or roll race when the crazy high DAs we've been having (6000' in late afternoon) here come down some (due to the advantages FI cars have in high DA over NA engines), but I rarely see them so these tests are all I have to go off of.

FWIW the tests I did had a crosswind.

[s346k]

yeah the 20-70? timer is humorous. fwiw i ran a lund tuned a10 18 pp1 car with headers and a procharger (p1x?) a couple weeks ago. from 40-100 i actually pulled on him, to the tune of almost a car length. above 100 it was no contest.

maybe i should tell everyone how my 3 basic mod camaro "runs with" fi a10 mustangs.

..or not.

[Brudda*Termite]

Originally Posted by s346k

yeah the 20-70? timer is humorous. fwiw i ran a lund tuned a10 18 pp1 car with headers and a procharger (p1x?) a couple weeks ago. from 40-100 i actually pulled on him, to the tune of almost a car length. above 100 it was no contest.

maybe i should tell everyone how my 3 basic mod camaro "runs with" fi a10 mustangs.

..or not.

There you go. Kill them before they can get to 100 mph

[s346k]

i've ran a lot of cars with 100+ hp more than i've got. the result is the same every time. the lighter car with comparable tq will pull hard to 100 or so. then once hp takes over it's only a matter of time until they come back around. i held off a 540 whp blower 6g maro way longer than i did that mustang haha.

i have full exhaust, ported stock intake manifold and ethanol. the car runs well but i certainly don't feel like it compares to any of the blower cars i've ran.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The difference is you have to take the driver out of the bag and have it ride shotgun or fold the seats down in the camaro. Which one would think isn't that big of a deal unless you have a child seat in the back and can't fold the seats down bc the camaro rear seat isn't a split fold and are picking someone up for golf lol Which is where it really gives the Mustang the edge in trunk useability for me as a potential buyer lol

I have a child seat in the back most of the time, I wish it had a split seat folding mechanism but at the same time I can usually make due by just taking the car seat out and putting it on top of the folded seats.

Fun fact I was out of Black Friday last year with the camaro and bought a power wheels, I didn't want to go home to get the truck so I hudini'd it in the camaro through the door. Somehow my roof liner came out without a mark lol.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

An NA car with 200 or more less horsepower and 230 less ft-lbs torque probably won't feel that impressive compared to very powerful FI cars, unless it was very light (i.e., C6 Z06: 505 hp, 3150 lbs). As far as actual quickness vs feel, consider this: My car recently did 20-70 mph in 3.28 seconds after I added the few bolt ons listed in my signature. I haven't tested it since I replaced the factory PP1 wheels w/ much lighter SVE R350 wheels, but eliminating ~36 lbs of rotating wheel weight would further reduce that time to likely ~3.23 seconds, give or take. For what it's worth, 20-70 mph in 3.23 to 3.28 seconds is about as quick as an A10 ZL1. How it "feels" now with basic mods doesn't matter as much as the actual acceleration splits, I would think you can agree with that. And most likely, the ZL1 would feel different, probably feel quicker, due to the FI, even if it ran similar time splits because of the greater engine torque, when in reality, 3.2X seconds is 3.2X seconds. My car accomplishes this due to a very flat hp curve from 6000-7400 rpm, and the A10 keeps it there. And this was in Sport+ mode on my cold weather Michelin all seasons, not PS4S in drag mode. Shifts are at about 7,450 rpm +/- in automatic mode.

I have never owned a Mustang before this one. I've owned 4 cars my entire life (not counting the cars/SUVs I've bought my wife throughout the years). My first two cars were GM muscle cars (1987 Camaro Z28 and modified 1995 Trans Am) that I drove for a combined 12 years between the two of them.

Now, I never even considered buying a Mustang until October 2018, when I saw a black on black S550 pull up next to me at a light. PP1, dark tint, etc. I was floored at how much I liked the looks. Prior to that moment, I had decided I was going to replace my 2007 MazdaSpeed3 that I had for 11 years, and fully expecting to buy a Camaro SS as it was my default go-to having grown up in a GM family. I was always a "Fix or repair daily" kind of guy. Once I realized how much I liked the looks and styling of the new Mustangs, I did some research; compared power, performance, features, interior dimensions, tech., etc., and eventually went and test drove the car I ended bringing home (after having put a car seat in the rear seat during the test drive for my youngest).

I admit I never test drove a 6th gen SS, and if I had earlier prior to seeing that new Mustang and test driving it, I probably would have bought one as I'm sure they are impressive machines. However, once I drove the Mustang, I knew I didn't want the SS, plain and simple. I liked the Mustang that much. I still have no regrets to this day.

The great thing about this is we all are free to drive what we want, and that we still have good American choices to choose from depending on our preferences. Each American muscle car goes about it a little differently:

Camaro = sports car focused
Mustang = Grand Tourer focused
Challenger = True muscle car/big bruiser focus (i.e., straight line only focus)

You probably won't do this, but feel free to try to find a post of mine where I actually insult or dog the Camaro. And remember, discussing it's shortcomings in utility isn't an insult. I don't think you will find anything damning against me. I do like the Camaro, always have. But I simply like my Mustang better. Nothing wrong w/ that.

Both are good cars and have their strengths and weaknesses, good thing we can choose what we prefer and even better than GTs and SSs are affordable enough that regular working people can have both if they so choose to.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

When you claim that your 5.0 is as quick as a ZL1, you are using some kind of onbard timer toy to generate the 'times', correct? Have you actually run the car on a real dragstrip and compared it's times to the Camaros at the same track? Because I have seen the 2018 A10 Mustangs on the dragstrip, and the truth is that they are still a little behind the SS Camaro stock vs stock. This means so far behind a ZL1 that it's not even funny. Therefore, the idea that a few bolt-ons has now made your car equal to a ZL1 is ridiculous. I understand that you think it's really fast, many Mustang fanboys are obviously fooled by the louder exhaust and the higher redline of the Coyote. But actual timeslips tell a different tale. To be clear, not criticizing your choice of a Mustang, personal preference is fine and nobody can tell someone else what to buy. What I am criticizing though, is how you keep trying on this forum to prop the Mustang up above the Camaro.

BTW I do have experience with doing bolt-ons, and I can tell you that an A10 5.0 with catback, CAI, E85 tune, and drag radials ran much slower times than my SS did when it had very few bolt-ons. So I have an understanding of what mods do. Will point out that while you have a ported intake manifold and ported throttle body, this guy had an E85 tune, so don't think that you have a lot more power than he did. If you looked at it honestly, you would understand that if the modded Mustang was actually accelerating as hard as the stock ZL1, then the drag tires should have made it quicker than the stock ZL1 (via a better launch then an equal rate of acceleration), but the fact that it ran much slower times instead shows that the modded 5.0 was still not really equal in rate of acceleration to the stock ZL1.

Idaho makes good points at times, and clearly enjoys his Stang as he should, but the subtle attempts at propping up of the mustang can be annoying and very noticable lol.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by s346k

i've ran a lot of cars with 100+ hp more than i've got. the result is the same every time. the lighter car with comparable tq will pull hard to 100 or so. then once hp takes over it's only a matter of time until they come back around. i held off a 540 whp blower 6g maro way longer than i did that mustang haha.

i have full exhaust, ported stock intake manifold and ethanol. the car runs well but i certainly don't feel like it compares to any of the blower cars i've ran.

I recently beat a Paxton s197 making around "600" horsepower... I have no delusions that my car is faster but racing manual vs manual is always fun because shit happens and the slower car can win sometimes lol... funny because when he pulled away after we had our fun he hooked and didn't miss a shift and I actually got to see how fast is car was.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I recently beat a Paxton s197 making around "600" horsepower... I have no delusions that my car is faster but racing manual vs manual is always fun because shit happens and the slower car can win sometimes lol... funny because when he pulled away after we had our fun he hooked and didn't miss a shift and I actually got to see how fast is car was.

racing stick cars is fun. both blower cars i ran were autos. id like to race cars like mine but there aren't any that slow around here. there are a million s550 cars, but they're all fi cars. i ran a cammed 5g 1LE awhile back, but tbh i don't think it was a good representation. when stock, i never lined up with any comparable 6g cars at the track, but the ones i saw weren't doing great. i ran a modded a10 ZL1 but that was slaughter on my stock 1LE.

[Nightfall ss1le]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I have no problem with people on a Camaro forum busting my balls - it's part of the fun coming here. But like I said, once I drove the Mustang I didn't even have the desire to drive the SS.

And I realize the 3rd and 4th gen F bodies are nowhere close to a 6th gen SS, obviously. I was pointing that out that I have a history w/ them and always loved them. To dispel the myth that I somehow hate the Camaros.

My 1st muscle car was a Mustang so I’m not a hater at all & do like them for what they are. With that said, I think if you drove a new Camaro you’d see why most unbiased people will agree it’s hands down the better car for things that car people buy cars for. The biggest complaint about them is visibility & it only gets magnified because there’s not much else to bitch about. A good friend of mine is a die hard Ford/Mustang guy and has a 17 GT premium PP1 with some minor bolt-ons, 305’s all around & a bunch of suspension work. He kept telling me how great his car was after doing all the work so I had him drive my bone stock car to see what he thought. He came back after a 10 minute drive, hung his head & said “yours is better”. Trust me when I tell you how difficult that was for him to admit lol

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Yes, I time w/ the OBDLink MX+ plugged into the OBDII port. I wouldn't call it a "toy". All I know is that the times don't lie. 20-70 mph in 3.28 seconds (ran prior to the much lighter wheels). If those aren't accurate, then I guess I'd be proven wrong but it's all I have to go off of. But they are likely accurate enough to show that my car is somehow at least in the ballpark of a stock ZL1. For what it's worth, on another separate run, I did 30-70 mph in 2.63 seconds (again, before the lightweight wheels). MotorTrend's test of the A10 ZL1 yielded 30-70 mph in 2.7 seconds. Now, that even shocked me.

I'd be more than happy to go up against a local ZL1 in a dig and/ or roll race when the crazy high DAs we've been having (6000' in late afternoon) here come down some (due to the advantages FI cars have in high DA over NA engines), but I rarely see them so these tests are all I have to go off of.

FWIW the tests I did had a crosswind.

What you are using is indeed a toy as far as I'm concerned. Legitimate dragstrip times are the best data, and I gave you an example which showed us that just adding a few bolt-ons does not really make the 2018 5.0 equal to a ZL1. What you are doing is comparing your toy to something from the propoganda industry, but if you truly believe that your toy is accurate, then you'd need to use it in your modded 5.0 and a stock ZL1 in the same place to compare what the toy says. That is why I specified same track before, would have same altitude and the same timing system.