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Old 04-21-2018, 11:24 PM   #29
6th_gen_gino
 
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The v6 Camaros with a supcharger still aren't as quick in a quarter mile as the i4, the low end torque we make with bolt ons and a tune even give v8s a difficult time. I've humbled a couple of v8s already
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bsaget007 View Post
Power starts to dip past 6k RPM, ideal shift point with a manual is ~6200. The 8-speed auto shifts earlier, but that's because it's taking advantage of its closer ratios. It mostly chokes at the top end because of the turbo, the stock turbo is a bit on the small side for the power output, which explains the good mid-range pull of the engine. Upgrading the turbo would increase top-end power at the sacrifice of low-end response. If I were to upgrade the turbo, I'd go with an upgraded stock frame turbo with better turbine/compressor wheels and ported housings, which would theoretically improve both low-end response (less inertia) and top-end power (more maximum flow).

The V6 is a top-end screamer, for sure; however, that's the only place in the powerband where the V6 is faster than the 2.0T. For that, you may as well bolt-ons and tune the 2.0T for the same cost as upgrading to the V6 ($1500) and end up quicker than the V6 everywhere in the powerband.
Are you implying the turbo kicks you in the butt earlier in the rev range? From 0 to maybe 40 the turbo must feel faster than the 6? If you need to rev the 6 out for the peak power, how does it feel earlier on? weak-ish?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
Simple bolt-ons and tune and your I4 surpasses the V6 bolt-on and tune aftermarket performance wise easily. It's not til you add Nitrous or FI to a V6 that it beats us and again they run into the same problems we do with fuel and internal engine parts. The LGX internals are nothing close to as durable as the 5th gens LLT or LFX internals and are basically almost the same as the I4s Dustya on here can attest to the shortcomings and bottlenecks although his 460whp Supercharged V6 is a beast. Not sure what his final cost was probably half what he spent buying his car.
Yeah, i agree about the power. I just wondered if the V6 had more ‘character’ than the I4.
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Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab View Post
I also drove all three engine options as the 6th gen cars started rolling in here in my area. I had to wait about 8 months or so from when I first test drove a v8 until when the first couple i4 cars showed up.

I have previously owned a 5th gen v8 (ls3), and a couple v6 cars, so I knew how both performed.

The 6th gen v8 was damned impressive. The v6 didn't do anything for me, and as mentioned above, seemed dead and flat to me, up until it finally got into redline. Not my bag. The i4 felt much more impressive than the v6 to me, I don't like waiting to get into the powerband, I want it now. You may be saying to yourself, "Yeah, but what about turbo lag"... Well, it doesn't really seem that noticeable to me, especially with an automatic. And yes, I drove both a manual and automatic i4 car before purchasing an auto. The turbo lag was much more noticeable with the manual, but I wasn't "no lift shifting it" either. Having had multiple clutch issues which trying to race with my 5th gen SS, I opted to go with the Auto and I don't regret it, especially as my track event of choice is drag racing, and it felt better than the manual to me.

I don't even know that a down pipe is needed, but I had one at the time. With nothing more than a down pipe, a tune, and the same ghetto drag wheels I used to run on the rear of my v8, the i4 is as quick at the track as my old 5th gen V8 was, and about a second and a half faster than my old 5th gen v6 was.

For the v6 to even be able to match the performance potential of the i4, you need to buy a supercharger, thats big $$ on top of already paying extra for the v6 itself.

Enough rambling, why did I choose the i4? The SS was technically "affordable" to me, but it wasn't going to allow me to tinker really. The v6, no contest, it was the wrong choice for me. The i4 would allow me to tinker, and have fun, and its modded potential could rival most v8 cars, where as the v6, never would, without spending a butt load of $ on it.

I got the RS package, only because it was the first i4 automatic to show up in the valley. I could live without it, but I was tired of waiting for more 4 cyl cars to show up, as I had been waiting 8 months after test driving the v8, and two had finally showed up, a bare bones manual i4, and the RS automatic. I bought the automatic.

AND, I even traded my 5th gen SS in and don't feel bad about it.
So you’d consider the I4 the ‘tuners’ choice and the V6 the “i like the V8 but it was out of my budget”? could you add onto the dead and flat description? I know it apparently ‘screams’ at high RPM, but the mileage must be terrible when wringing it out. Nobody talks about how it is in normal driving. I assume the I4 must be pretty punchy.
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Originally Posted by cooper1965 View Post
I am NOT a good person to ask about MPG, hehe.. I believe in a more "extreme" break in procedure, that won't be finished until my 3rd oil change @ 3000 miles. (currently at 2800ish) Although I am averaging 21.5 amazingly. I fully expect to average 35+ after break in. As far as turbo lag. I don't notice it at all. I know there seems to be alot of talk about it, but I just don't feel or see it. Maybe below 2k rpm's..Maybe..Putting around town is WAAYY better than the v6. The I4 generates HUGE amount's of torque very early. Here are some dyno graphs posted of before and after tuning. http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=59
(Hope you dont mind Evil-Bee-NH )
You can see even in stock form, your making 270+ ft lbs of torque by 3k rpm's. You have to wrap the v6 up pretty high before power comes in. Is it fun?? You asked.. HELLS YES. I find it every bit as enjoyable as the LS1 Z28 I sold to buy this. Don't miss it one bit. Passing gear power is amazing, Boost launching is insain, and just flat footing the gas from a dead stop will light the 20's up around 3k in first if you arnt careful!! The sound of these cars is very subjective. It's really in the eye of the beholder. Some guys just LOVE it. Other guys HATE it. Soo , I'm no help on that subject. There are a lot of exhaust options and possibilities though, so Im sure even the toughest critic's such as myself, will find a combination that suits our needs!
Also I'm with Jason@JacFab the A8 is a MUST!!


Optilux by Hella. I realized I skipped this information in my build thread, and updated it. Thank you
So you find the turbo character and powerband better on the I4 than the 6? Is the 6 more fun to ring out for power? Do you ever ring out the I4? I heard the I4 is actually louder than the 6? Any turbo noise
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreBMX View Post
I really wanted the V6 or V8, soundwise, but displacement tax here is so crazy (even on the 3.6) that no amount of sound can justify that cost. So I settled for the I4 Manual and I must say that this engine really amazes me, it feels at least as fast as the V6 I rented last year, and I‘ve gotten used to the sound, though looking to enhance this a bit in the naar future.
It sounds like the powerband of the I4 makes the car feel much ‘punchier’ than the 6? The 6 takes a lot more RPMs and fuel to generate the power.

I heard there’s a lot of forged parts like the crank and connecting rods in the I4? Not sure about the V6?
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:37 PM   #31
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I could not afford an SS, or I would have an SS. When we test drove the 2.0, I expected it to be lousy, but to my surprise, it was as fast as I will ever need, and I love the Turbo Sound, as well as the way it handles. It basically looks just like an SS in my opinion anyway. Bonus is when I am not having fun, I can almost get 30 mpg in a beautiful looking car. Flaps
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:04 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by 6th_gen_gino View Post
The v6 Camaros with a supcharger still aren't as quick in a quarter mile as the i4, the low end torque we make with bolt ons and a tune even give v8s a difficult time. I've humbled a couple of v8s already
Are you saying that maybe a little pull from a traffic light the I4 would pull ahead of the V6? Does the V6 FEEL slower than the I4 until you hit high RPMs? I feel like i wouldn’t be wringing out the engine everyday. If this is the case, the I4 must feel better on a daily basis?
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:52 AM   #33
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Damn you love that quote button given for doing your very thorough research.

To answer the V6 is high-end power stock for stock the I4 actually pulls pretty hard til 60 stock. So your daily driver feelings won't be hurt with the I4.

The V6 will get the same gas mileage unless your in cruise control mode on the highway or on the backroads. An example of this is I went to CamaroFest 7 in Bowling Green, KY last year when I did my highway cruise at 74mph 99% of the time I got about 700mi. from a full tank and I was ECM tuned and full bolt-ons. On backroads I can average 35 to 37 mph with cruise control and no traffic. Now I don't often do that because let's face it i'm the guy who will light up people at a stop-light given the chance same on the highway, nothing like boost building then slamming the pedal down for wide open throttle i'm a sick mofo I know. So gas mileage is all in how you decide to drive. I average 24mpg with my more then spirited driving.

I will say this part only once... Wether you choose the V6 or not don't use the shitty regular or 87 octane fuel it will cause knock and pull timing thus performance it's a fact and it will happen use premium regardless of your choice.

As far as your forged internals... They are not your traditional aftermarket forged internals they are Factory Forged internals and they are only good til about 400whp so figure 450wtq with that as a complete guesstimate and then things start breaking. I feel the V6 is in this same boat again i'd ask Dustya he's the only one in those numbers on the V6. Again to exceed 400whp/450wtq you'd need to solve a few lingering issues obviously you'll need a bigger turbo those are easy to find.

1. Forged Internals (ZZP, Molnar, CP-Carillo, JE Etc.) All make Forged Rods and Pistons for the 2.0T LTG/I4.

2. Cooling - Upgrading your intercooler and piping is a must probably past 350whp. We have a few options direct fit with Mishimoto's OEM Location and ZZPs FMIC option.

3. Fuel - This can be corrected with several things but you will need a way to get more fuel then the stock system allows. We do not currently have a better HPFP - High Pressure Fuel Pump. The V6 is in this same boat as us with fueling. So correcting for a short list you could go with the ZL1 Low-Pressure-Fuel-Pump this has been confirmed to work and fit by Dustya in the V6 there is zero reason it wouldn't work in the I4. That will solve your problem with getting fuel from the tank next the engine area you can get a better cam ZZP has developed one and a few people are working on other cams and methods but your probably safest in getting Methanol Injection so you can adjust timing.

4. M6 if you get a manual your gonna wanna upgrade that clutch...



So in case you ask this question if you decided to modify and tune your I4 Camaro. You have 2 options with a whole nother can of worms depending on your transmission choice.

- 2016 I4/V6 Camaros A8 or M6: Will be easiest to tune nothing is locked in them i'll get to this below in t he next section.

- 2017+ I4/V6 Camaros A8 or M6: GM Security locked the ECM/PCM and TCM in these cars so for M6 you will need to unlock your ECM/PCM and go from their it's not cheap... 4 Credits to Unlock 4 to Tune I think so find someone you trust. With the A8 your dumping even more money in you have the ECM/PCM let's stick with the 8 Credits for tht now you need to Tune your TCM seperately. To do so you need to physically remove your TCM - Transmission Control Module and send it to HPTuners to be unlocked costs $200. They will mail it back to you after that put it back in and go get tuned which is another 4 credits. So your tuner is going to use 12 credits just tuning your car. So M6 your out anywhere from 400 to 500 A8 your sinking 800 to 1k into it depending on how gracious your tuner is.


One final mention is A8 Transmission Shudder. This is in all factory A8 Transmission I4, V6, V8 this is because GM are assholes sometimes and they put such high slip% limits that the transmission oil pressure will drop not only does that suck it can damage your torque converter the way around this is a transmission tune to zero out or adjust slip%'s to near nothing. GM has this Band-Aid flush TSB and it's exactly that a Band-Aid.
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:27 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
Damn you love that quote button given for doing your very thorough research.

To answer the V6 is high-end power stock for stock the I4 actually pulls pretty hard til 60 stock. So your daily driver feelings won't be hurt with the I4.

The V6 will get the same gas mileage unless your in cruise control mode on the highway or on the backroads. An example of this is I went to CamaroFest 7 in Bowling Green, KY last year when I did my highway cruise at 74mph 99% of the time I got about 700mi. from a full tank and I was ECM tuned and full bolt-ons. On backroads I can average 35 to 37 mph with cruise control and no traffic. Now I don't often do that because let's face it i'm the guy who will light up people at a stop-light given the chance same on the highway, nothing like boost building then slamming the pedal down for wide open throttle i'm a sick mofo I know. So gas mileage is all in how you decide to drive. I average 24mpg with my more then spirited driving.

I will say this part only once... Wether you choose the V6 or not don't use the shitty regular or 87 octane fuel it will cause knock and pull timing thus performance it's a fact and it will happen use premium regardless of your choice.

As far as your forged internals... They are not your traditional aftermarket forged internals they are Factory Forged internals and they are only good til about 400whp so figure 450wtq with that as a complete guesstimate and then things start breaking. I feel the V6 is in this same boat again i'd ask Dustya he's the only one in those numbers on the V6. Again to exceed 400whp/450wtq you'd need to solve a few lingering issues obviously you'll need a bigger turbo those are easy to find.

1. Forged Internals (ZZP, Molnar, CP-Carillo, JE Etc.) All make Forged Rods and Pistons for the 2.0T LTG/I4.

2. Cooling - Upgrading your intercooler and piping is a must probably past 350whp. We have a few options direct fit with Mishimoto's OEM Location and ZZPs FMIC option.

3. Fuel - This can be corrected with several things but you will need a way to get more fuel then the stock system allows. We do not currently have a better HPFP - High Pressure Fuel Pump. The V6 is in this same boat as us with fueling. So correcting for a short list you could go with the ZL1 Low-Pressure-Fuel-Pump this has been confirmed to work and fit by Dustya in the V6 there is zero reason it wouldn't work in the I4. That will solve your problem with getting fuel from the tank next the engine area you can get a better cam ZZP has developed one and a few people are working on other cams and methods but your probably safest in getting Methanol Injection so you can adjust timing.

4. M6 if you get a manual your gonna wanna upgrade that clutch...



So in case you ask this question if you decided to modify and tune your I4 Camaro. You have 2 options with a whole nother can of worms depending on your transmission choice.

- 2016 I4/V6 Camaros A8 or M6: Will be easiest to tune nothing is locked in them i'll get to this below in t he next section.

- 2017+ I4/V6 Camaros A8 or M6: GM Security locked the ECM/PCM and TCM in these cars so for M6 you will need to unlock your ECM/PCM and go from their it's not cheap... 4 Credits to Unlock 4 to Tune I think so find someone you trust. With the A8 your dumping even more money in you have the ECM/PCM let's stick with the 8 Credits for tht now you need to Tune your TCM seperately. To do so you need to physically remove your TCM - Transmission Control Module and send it to HPTuners to be unlocked costs $200. They will mail it back to you after that put it back in and go get tuned which is another 4 credits. So your tuner is going to use 12 credits just tuning your car. So M6 your out anywhere from 400 to 500 A8 your sinking 800 to 1k into it depending on how gracious your tuner is.


One final mention is A8 Transmission Shudder. This is in all factory A8 Transmission I4, V6, V8 this is because GM are assholes sometimes and they put such high slip% limits that the transmission oil pressure will drop not only does that suck it can damage your torque converter the way around this is a transmission tune to zero out or adjust slip%'s to near nothing. GM has this Band-Aid flush TSB and it's exactly that a Band-Aid.
Thanks for the respect! I figure if someone spends the time to write something, might as well quote them and continue! You sound just like me. Every traffic light go for it, and then cool it to pull those MPGs back up. I live in hawaii 90% of the time, and my Island doesn’t have a freeway. It’s a 1 lane road with a max speed of 55. It is very windy, so you won’t be doing any 100MPH pulls anywhere.

The reason I mention this is because every side road filters onto the 55/60MPH main road through a stop sign. This means you’re always doing pulls to get onto the main road (cars come pretty quick, don’t want to slug around)... It sounds though the I4 will get off the line nice and hard if I let the clutch out a little higher (more boost) where as the V6 will be a little slower but reach higher speeds in each gear.

Very very difficult decision. I don’t want to impulsively pick whatever the dealer shows me because I will be extremely stoked with both of them.
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:44 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
Simple bolt-ons and tune and your I4 surpasses the V6 bolt-on and tune aftermarket performance wise easily. It's not til you add Nitrous or FI to a V6 that it beats us and again they run into the same problems we do with fuel and internal engine parts. The LGX internals are nothing close to as durable as the 5th gens LLT or LFX internals and are basically almost the same as the I4s Dustya on here can attest to the shortcomings and bottlenecks although his 460whp Supercharged V6 is a beast. Not sure what his final cost was probably half what he spent buying his car.
wait...are you saying the 6th gen LGX internal parts are not as sturdy as LFX parts? why would the factory make a step backwards in durability? not that this would affect me as im driving a 5th gen V6,just curious about this...
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:02 AM   #36
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People ran the LFX and LLT into the 460 to 500whp range without to much issue but there were quite a few internal engine parts that failed around those levels. I'm not saying it's gonna happen right off or ever but it's been documented as happening.
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:33 PM   #37
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Are you implying the turbo kicks you in the butt earlier in the rev range? From 0 to maybe 40 the turbo must feel faster than the 6? If you need to rev the 6 out for the peak power, how does it feel earlier on? weak-ish?
Not quite. I drove both engines with the manual transmission, and they accelerate fairly similarly. You do feel the more torque and less weight of the 2.0T when compared to the V6. The thing is, the V6 never feels quicker than the 2.0T, despite the on-paper 60 bhp advantage. So once you tune the 2.0T to make the same power as the V6, you'll have a roughly 100 lb-ft torque and 100 lbs weight advantage over the V6, so you'll be significantly quicker for the same amount of money.

Another interesting to note would be which stock 'configuration' feels quicker to accelerate. The 2.0T and 8-speed auto combination has the quickest acceleration feeling, thanks to more torque, less weight, and shorter gearing. Conversely, the V6 and 8-speed auto has the slowest acceleration feel for the opposite reasons (less torque, more weight, taller gears [2.77 vs 3.27]). Seems to be why a lot of people are going for the 2.0T as opposed to the V6, especially if they are shopping for an automatic; it feels quicker, despite being less powerful.
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:48 PM   #38
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Not quite. I drove both engines with the manual transmission, and they accelerate fairly similarly. You do feel the more torque and less weight of the 2.0T when compared to the V6. The thing is, the V6 never feels quicker than the 2.0T, despite the on-paper 60 bhp advantage. So once you tune the 2.0T to make the same power as the V6, you'll have a roughly 100 lb-ft torque and 100 lbs weight advantage over the V6, so you'll be significantly quicker for the same amount of money.

Another interesting to note would be which stock 'configuration' feels quicker to accelerate. The 2.0T and 8-speed auto combination has the quickest acceleration feeling, thanks to more torque, less weight, and shorter gearing. Conversely, the V6 and 8-speed auto has the slowest acceleration feel for the opposite reasons (less torque, more weight, taller gears [2.77 vs 3.27]). Seems to be why a lot of people are going for the 2.0T as opposed to the V6, especially if they are shopping for an automatic; it feels quicker, despite being less powerful.
Thanks for the info. I’ve heard the I4 responds well to the automatic 8. How does it do with the manual? That is most likely the one i’d go for. Tuning would be ideal, but I’d need to wait until the warrenty expires. So currently just basing them stock for stock.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:50 PM   #39
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I wanted to add a few things after reading some of your responses. It's clear your leaning M6. It should be noted that M6 get's the added bonus of LSD, and a 225 mm ring gear. Even though I 100% suggest A8. I love slamming gears, but the paddle shift is an awesome compromise, considering how much faster the A8 really is. Also, Ive seen I4 vs V6 bone stock run multiple times..
80ish MPH is when the v6 starts creeping up, and eventually passes you before the 1/4 mile. (100-103mph ish) Hope that helps.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:01 AM   #40
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I wanted to add a few things after reading some of your responses. It's clear your leaning M6. It should be noted that M6 get's the added bonus of LSD, and a 225 mm ring gear. Even though I 100% suggest A8. I love slamming gears, but the paddle shift is an awesome compromise, considering how much faster the A8 really is. Also, Ive seen I4 vs V6 bone stock run multiple times..
80ish MPH is when the v6 starts creeping up, and eventually passes you before the 1/4 mile. (100-103mph ish) Hope that helps.
Any delay with the paddles? I loved driving a BMW M2 with the dual clutch auto. That banged gears harder than I could in a manual
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:10 AM   #41
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There is some shitty delay in the paddles to the transmission not sure if it can be tuned out. However I've personally noticed a lot less shift lag using the shifter over the paddles.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:42 AM   #42
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There is definitely some delay as Evil-B said. It is very time-able , and functions exactly the same every time though. Unfortunately the issue can not be resolved with tuning. The problem actually rests in the hardware used in the system, not the software.
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