[WhiteLightening]

Since our 3.6 engines are so complex, what is the good ways to improve the power and torque output. Short of superchargers on the engine what other options do we have?

[Bluecyclone]

My 2014 Cyclone mustang had a good response to DSS 1 piece drive shaft after I did an intake tube and Bassani exhaust cat backs. The gear changing response was so much improved especially with a tune.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by WhiteLightening

Since our 3.6 engines are so complex, what is the good ways to improve the power and torque output. Short of superchargers on the engine what other options do we have?

The basics since the beginning of time really are:

Intakes
Ported TB
Exhaust
Also...
Headers are NOT possible due to the cylinder head exhaust design.

Cams are far more expensive than most here are gonna invest (people complain about intake and exhaust prices...cams aren't for you then) cams are relatively cheap to get, but the install tears down decent part of the cylinder heads and front of the engine for the timing chains. Hourly rates aren't cheap.

The new intake manifold and 80mm tb is promising. Easy mod and change. About 650$ (many will be too cheap to make the investment...remember an intake with reflash is around 400 and people complain at that price level.)

Stroked engine. Hasn't been done yet. Cost will be higher than just rebuilding an engine as that will be part of the process... but getting the crank stroked will be some cash spent...once again most are too cheap to go this route.

Nitrous. Limited use, mainly drag tracks and street racing, but you need tuning and bottle refills for the consumable nitrous.

Tuning. Decent gain, especially if you have basic bolt on mods. Price most will gripe about. Limitation is many don't opt for it due to possibly voiding warranty depending on your dealership.

The LGX engine isn't really all that different or complex. Its an air pump like any other engine. Tuning is a bit tougher if you DIY, but its still an engine where intake flow and exhaust flow characteristics still apply as it would on any other engine.

The main problem with the v6 is the avg v6 owner. They eventually want tons and tons of power, but they don't want to pay $$$ to achieve it. So they beat around the bush trying to find as much cheap things to do, then nickel and dime themselves into a lot of money spent vs marginal power gained. You have throttle controllers which are proven to not add power or decrease times people pay 200$ for, tb spacers a few here have bought for 100-150$ which are also proven non power adders... at that point that could have been an intake or a tb which is proven. But since those didn't add power, they will be reluctant to buy anything else.

Also the thing in n/a for that have been proven to add power, many down talk em like they don't do anything but "add sound"... This is probably the biggest killer of parts and marketing for our cars. there's not many who add parts and go test them. most are physically unable to feel a 3whp gain (given), but gains in the 7-15whp range, if you truly cant feel...somethings up with your equilibrium or feel. but in terms of power, you cant always base a mod off of PEAK HP numbers. which is where a lot of marketing comes in from. peak numbers. Generally speaking, most cars have a LOW, MID, and HIGH RPM range of tuning

(anyone who has tuned using a diablosport trinity or predator can vouch as their canned tunes can take adjustments of the tune in ranges of:
Spark Adjustment
WOT Spark 1k-3.8k:
Allows user to adjust timing +/-10 degrees in the 1000-3800 rpm range
WOT Spark 4k-4.8k:
Allows user to adjust timing +/-10 degrees in the 4000-4800 rpm range
WOT Spark 5k-7k:
Allows user to adjust timing +/-10 degrees in the 5000-7000 rpm range

Fuel Adjustment
WOT Fuel 1k-3.8k
Allows user to adjust fuel +/- 20% in the 1000-3800 rpm range
WOT Fuel 4k-4.8k
Allows user to adjust fuel +/- 20% in the 4000-4800 rpm range
WOT Fuel 5k-7k
Allows user to adjust fuel +/- 20% in the 5000-7000 rpm range)

with that being said, its possible to gain more in a certain rpm range with a mod, that what the PEAK gain would be. this is where you look into the AVG gain numbers. you can get a stock number of 250whp, and then add a part and get 255whp... but somewhere in a range down low, or mid where you were at 180whp stock you may have actually been at 193 whp in that range with the added part. Sadly with most mods...people only look at the peak gains, and not gains across the entire rpm band. this is where I've seen MANY miss out on gains (anyone remember the intake manifold spacers on the 5th gen?)

There's many other ways people are "leaving power on the table"... but I wont get into that



Gotta be realistic with your goals and what you're gonna use the car for.

If you crave high levels of power, might as well start looking into the supercharger from overkill, or sourcing out a turbo kit and tuning. There's plenty of people that have done so and making power above ss levels as of now.


anything else, and its not approaching it realistically. you'd be looking for some magical mod that doesn't exist. its like people at the gym who don't wanna work out, but will take every single diet pill to try and lose weight. same with cars and a gym... if you want to make gains, you gotta do the work.

[DSX_Camaro]

Lighter wheels with stickier tires. Driveshaft, aluminum or carbon fiber, as was mentioned. Gears. Everything Polynesian said. Deleting your secondary cats (not monitored, no CEL). E85. If someone was developing catless downpipes I'd say jump on that (if you aren't subject to emissions testing).

DOHC V6s aren't new. The tuning for the Camaro V6s has more been an issue of coverage and investment, as it's such a small (relatively speaking) group that are actually going through with the testing, tuning, big build cars. That, and the tuning itself has been tricky, and the ECU's aren't super cooperative, but since Will at Overkill is on the LGX, I'm sure there will be better coverage than we ever had in the beginning.

[Dustya]

Originally Posted by WhiteLightening

Since our 3.6 engines are so complex, what is the good ways to improve the power and torque output. Short of superchargers on the engine what other options do we have?

Hey brother I am not usually that guy but i feel like you post the same questions but in 10 different ways expecting an answer that doesn't exist. We are fortunate enough to have people like Polynesian powerhouse who take the time to explain things in depth.. Just be careful don't burn your bridges. There are tons of other threads you have been apart of that talk about air intakes exhausts tunes ... gear ratios transmissions you have asked all these questions then you roll back to the open ended how do we gain power question.

I am all for people who want to modify the LGX and push the limits try new things ask questions but I feel like your just creating redundant threads.

I mean all of this in the most respectful way possible.

[WhiteLightening]

Originally Posted by Dustya

Hey brother I am not usually that guy but i feel like you post the same questions but in 10 different ways expecting an answer that doesn't exist. We are fortunate enough to have people like Polynesian powerhouse who take the time to explain things in depth.. Just be careful don't burn your bridges. There are tons of other threads you have been apart of that talk about air intakes exhausts tunes ... gear ratios transmissions you have asked all these questions then you roll back to the open ended how do we gain power question.

I am all for people who want to modify the LGX and push the limits try new things ask questions but I feel like your just creating redundant threads.

I mean all of this in the most respectful way possible.

Oh I simply asked this question to know if there was ways other than boosting and exhaust changes, plus CAIs . I don't know much about engine tuning or all the other ways to increase performance. So I asked, didn't mean to make a redundant question tho.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by WhiteLightening

Oh I simply asked this question to know if there was ways other than boosting and exhaust changes, plus CAIs . I don't know much about engine tuning or all the other ways to increase performance. So I asked, didn't mean to make a redundant question tho.

that fine... just remember.

Engines within themselves are basic. VERY BASIC. there's 4 cycles.

Intake -> Compression -> Combustion -> Exhaust.

or if you prefer the caveman terminology: Suck Squish Bang Blow.


every engine whether it has variable timing, non variable timing, direct injection, port injection, rotary, pistons, etc... all work with that principle.

Its basic...there isn't a magic short cut, or a magic setup, or a hidden setup you seem to keep searching for.

The "magic setup" or "quick way" to power...isn't really all magic, but its the one route you don't seem to want to go..... BOOST. aka supercharging/turbo. yes...it costs. but pretty effective for the money and with todays technology can be safely done. there are ways to make it safer and more efficient with engine rebuilds done FOR boost, but you can make some safe power on stock engines which has been proven.

my suggestion....take some time and start reading, most people DONT... and those who don't, you can tell. Asking the same questions over and over, or asking what's the best this is that when the market is flooded with said part... trust me, I get it. many are excited and want to put parts on their car. but the reason why forum rules state to look before you post, is so there isn't 100 posts of the same exact topic. once again this isn't being a dick or being mean... its like saying, help us help you & everyone who needs help.

or if reading isn't really your thing (some people just don't like reading), when you come home from school or work... grab a bite to eat, cold drink... and watch channels like:

Engineering Explained: https://www.youtube.com/user/EngineeringExplained

Mighty Car Mods: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgJ...6XFxq9Ga8W2J3A

or if you up for some reading with a few vids

Auto How Stuff Works: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/



Take some time to learn the basics. Everyone claims they cant take the time, or are in a rush, etc etc... BUT if your serious about making your car go faster or be more efficient...its not gonna be cheap. and if you plan to spend the cash to do so on your car, its an investment. so out of common sense, it would be wise to do as much research on your own by reading and watching vids and not just looking for random quick answers. youre not gonna learn EVERYTHING, but to grasp a bit of the basics is doable. I don't say it to be mean, but it sucks when you read the "I hate this car, I'm swapping to this car" posts because someone listened to uninformed quick posts, spent thousands on their car in haste, and took steps backwards to a slower less efficient car.

as an example... I post long posts as I try to explain things... however, last night after working on a members car on here installing his exhaust, I pretty much spent the rest of the night reading through:

Track Pads for 1LE?
Track prep
Track Mods For 1LE SS - For Reliability

and that's just so I could decide on what brake pad to buy for the 1LE Calipers today the first post though....17 pages long. just so I could verify the hawk street/race compounds are basically the old DTC-30 pads.

17 pages (not posts) on a forum isn't long reading. the other two posts are just 4 and 3 pages.

my point is, as long as I've been here, and with the little bit I know overall about cars, its not gonna hurt me to run a search and read or RE-READ posts, I've seen already or only glanced at.

Before I got my exhaust redone last week, I re-read through a post on here about the adaptive valves and removing them. Long ago, I kept mine in until I learned more about em. MagnaFlow and borla both suggested keeping them in. then after reading the one post here, and seeing they aren't connected by electronics as on the v8's, I agree with the posts from this forum, that it wont throw a code if done right.

and as a side note, everyone talks about the rear cats being restrictive????



that door/valve, your engine via exhaust has to push open for exhaust to flow out of.... it takes a decent amount of pressure. so exhaust has to push that door open just to flow past it. that's def a restriction. its spring loaded so there is constant tendency for it to want to close. its not actuated open or closed as on the v8's depending on the amount of cylinders in use 4 vs 8 (or 4 vs 6 in our case).


a catalytic converter basically allows gasses to flow through, and it also reheats the exhaust to about 1200 degrees(under load), which makes it flow quicker (higher velocity)

we always talk about removing cats, but not removing the valves?

I know some say its for backpressure...but by now we should all know:



this is why I'll reiterate, its not a bad thing to go back and revisit posts and read through them thoroughly to understand how things work, or watch some vids to get information and educate yourself.

[KirkH]

With the cost of all the V6 mods: supercharger, tune, throttle body, exhaust, intake, etc. it seems to me that buying a used 5th gen SS for about $10,000-13,000 would cost about the same as modding a V6 with labor charges, shipping, taxes, etc.

Is there something wrong with my thinking on this? Am I missing something?

[Dustya]

Originally Posted by KirkH

With the cost of all the V6 mods: supercharger, tune, throttle body, exhaust, intake, etc. it seems to me that buying a used 5th gen SS for about $10,000-13,000 would cost about the same as modding a V6 with labor charges, shipping, taxes, etc.

Is there something wrong with my thinking on this? Am I missing something?

Nothing wrong with your thinking as long as you like the 5th gen SS and don't mind buying used. However if you put 10-13k just into performance mods you would be much faster then a 5th gen SS.. you would even be faster then a 6th Gen SS.. I havent even spent 10k on performance mods yet im close though.

The Shop I work with just picked up a c6 with a procharger on it like 2k mile on the procharger horrible tune guy thought he ruined his car sold it for 13k.. They tuned it right added some extra fuel modifiers 600+whp.. Nothing wrong with the car at all..

There are definitely other ways to spend your money if thats whats your looking for.

[KirkH]

Originally Posted by Dustya

However if you put 10-13k just into performance mods you would be much faster then a 5th gen SS.. you would even be faster then a 6th Gen SS.. I havent even spent 10k on performance mods yet im close though.

Cool. I was just thinking.

[KirkH]

I am big into modding my vehicle. I have modded my diesel Ford F250 in many, many ways, including the fuel system to run on waste vegetable oil, water injection, etc. Of course, with modding, you run into problems.

In fact, on a long road trip recently, I had to remove the Vitesse controller from my Camaro as it caused the "Reduced Engine Power" message. My wife hates breaking down on the road more than anything.

So while I am dying to mod my Camaro, I only have the GM CAI and I plan on getting the GM exhaust.

I think I am going to go the route of buying a 5th gen SS with around 50,000 miles and do my own build based on proven strategies. I will learn a lot and my daily driver won't be affected. I can do most of my own wrenching and I have a friend with a garage and SnapOn tools.

I still enjoy following your builds.

[Dustya]

Originally Posted by KirkH

I am big into modding my vehicle. I have modded my diesel Ford F250 in many, many ways, including the fuel system to run on waste vegetable oil, water injection, etc. Of course, with modding, you run into problems.

In fact, on a long road trip recently, I had to remove the Vitesse controller from my Camaro as it caused the "Reduced Engine Power" message. My wife hates breaking down on the road more than anything.

So while I am dying to mod my Camaro, I only have the GM CAI and I plan on getting the GM exhaust.

I think I am going to go the route of buying a 5th gen SS with around 50,000 miles and do my own build based on proven strategies. I will learn a lot and my daily driver won't be affected. I can do most of my own wrenching and I have a friend with a garage and SnapOn tools.

I still enjoy following your builds.

This is a awesome idea!!!! as of 2 weeks ago my camaro is no longer my daily it hasnt broken down yet but I drive 110 miles a day and I want it long term with 50k miles already on the car that wasnt going to slow down and I keep wanting to mod more and more. I bought a 2015 VW golf TDI with 28k miles on it for 12000.. I get 55mpg and its a very nice ride for my daily drive and im super excited to not be slamming all those miles on my now heavily invested camaro.

[gringo]

To boost torque, you need to increase displacement. Either by F.I. or an increase in bore/stroke or both. With power, you can increase the rev limit, but you will need supporting mods (cams, tune, etc) to make it work.

[Kenny Camaro]

The best gains to be had are the Overkill tune with the Overkill 80 mm Throttlebody/ Ported Intake Manifold. The tune is a dyno proven 22 rear horsepower gain. The tune with the combo 80/ported mani on e85 has dynoed at 310 rear wheel horsepower. A gain of over 50 horsepower. There is NO bigger normally aspirated gain to be found for the LGX!!