Homepage Garage Wiki Register Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Members Area > Ask the Camaro Team


BeckyD @ James Martin Chevy


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-16-2019, 02:59 PM   #1
Silentlegion
 
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Manual (Karnage)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 50
Catch Cans: do they void warranties and why?

Hi Camaro Team,

So this is a question that the board has been talking about that when they go to there GM dealership it is a 50/50 on if it voids there warrant or not for having one.

My question is to go straight to the source because we want to hear it from y'alls end: Does having a Catch can on the 6th Gen Camaro void the vehicles warranty, if so: why?

Scientifically Catch Cans are better for the 6th gen Camaros because its removing the oil that is going back into your system and in the long run will become build up on your valves. (that is the shortened up version)

I would like to know why they will void the cars warranty and what information/ studies have yall done on this to say no?

Thanks,

Silent Legion and my Car: Karnage
Silentlegion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 03:15 PM   #2
Glen e


 
Glen e's Avatar
 
Drives: Garnet 2LT RS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: /Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 9,743
It really doesn’t matter what’s right or wrong, if your service manager decides that he doesn’t want to warranty something, it’s going to take Hell & Highwater (and a lot of legal) dollars for you to prove him wrong. So go ask first. Lots of dealerships will accept a Catch can, many others won’t.

Arguing what is legally right, doesn’t do the customer a whole hell of lotta good.
Glen e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 04:01 PM   #3
Silentlegion
 
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Manual (Karnage)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 50
Well the decision im sure came when the vehicle was being created so im just curious what kind of test and issues they might have found that would make them say no. I am thinking of getting one as my dealership near me is okay with it but if it causes any problems that make you go ohhhh ya i dont want to do that, i think we as the people would like to know... right?
Silentlegion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 11:12 PM   #4
waterman

 
waterman's Avatar
 
Drives: Grandad's C2 L89
Join Date: May 2017
Location: 20*51.50N 156*29.60W
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentlegion View Post
Hi Camaro Team,

So this is a question that the board has been talking about that when they go to there GM dealership it is a 50/50 on if it voids there warrant or not for having one.

My question is to go straight to the source because we want to hear it from y'alls end: Does having a Catch can on the 6th Gen Camaro void the vehicles warranty, if so: why?

Scientifically Catch Cans are better for the 6th gen Camaros because its removing the oil that is going back into your system and in the long run will become build up on your valves. (that is the shortened up version)

I would like to know why they will void the cars warranty and what information/ studies have yall done on this to say no?

Thanks,

Silent Legion and my Car: Karnage
I too am interested in an opinion from the engineering team on this subject.

Obviously, a CC for GDI would be beneficial to reduce ingestion of oil and harmful byproducts of blow by reintroduced by the OEM PCV.

Perhaps a better question might provide that the catch can has been properly installed. That the said installed CC in no way compromises, defeats, deletes or reduces, any function of the OEM PCV system and that it remains a closed system.

Although I would truly appreciate the engineering team's opinion here, the legal team likely have more say concerning warranty.

With that said; Good question, I'll vote for it.
__________________
2018 ZL1 1LE sw/PDR
waterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 11:23 PM   #5
Glen e


 
Glen e's Avatar
 
Drives: Garnet 2LT RS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: /Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 9,743
Obviously GM is going to say that they don’t need a CC because their engines work fine without them. It has been posted time and time again.... there is a post that was over at the Corvette forum in 2014 when it was discussed whether it was warranty or not… a GM engineer answered indirectly......

Written to mike at Criswell when he asked one of his engineering buddies about this…

I was the one that contacted someone from the Stingray Consultant team from GM...Here comes is what he wrote back on this matter.

"The Stingray was evaluated with over one million development miles on 200 captured test fleet cars. There are tens of thousands of direct injection vehicles on the road from General Motors alone. During the evaluation hundreds of engines were literally torn down in to part piles and evaluated. There are hundreds of thousands of LSx family of motors (where part of this catch can hype started) on the roads and the many of these motors are running well past 250,000 miles without a catch can.

The cars have a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty and that includes mechanical failure of the engine. Trust me when I tell you that there are not reams of data (not even pages of data) on cars coming up lame because of oil at the MAF. It just isn't the problem that the "internet" makes it out to be. When you ask a GM Powertrain engineer about a catch can the reply is that the only thing you get is added weight.

In looking at the extra effort and added cost that went in to the Stingray, do you really believe for one second that if a $20.00 part attached to the engine would improve reliability, limit warranty claims and replacement costs, that GM wouldn't have put it on if it was necessary as part of their evaluation?

Every single GM engineer that I have spoken with told me in one form or another that a catch can is predominately a "gimmick" device created by tuners looking to make a few extra bucks on their engine modifications.

As a by-product of the PCV system, excess oil vapor is recycled to prevent it from leaching out in to the environment. It will condense back in to liquid if the temperature and environmental conditions are right. A catch can is an oil separator device. It allows the heavier oil in liquid to condense in the bottom of the can and only pass the air (gases) back. This is basically the same thing that is happening at the front of the MAF where most of the oil can be found.

The theory is that this oil in the intake system will collect on the valves and in the cylinders and cause excess carbon deposits. The catch can will reduce (not eliminate) oil pooling in the MAF.

Where the plan breaks down is that there aren't thousands of cars detonating because of the oil. As I told you on the phone, This isn't new. The engines are designed to deal with a quantity of oil mist presented via the intake.

You asked what I should tell the customer, my answer is I'm not sure because I don't know what his question is. If the question is is this normal? The answer is yes. If the question is should I put a catch can on? The answer is what ever makes you feel better. If the question is do I need a catch can? The answer is a resounding no. If the reply is that they saw it on the internet, apologize politely and tell them virtually every thread about it has started with a vendor selling a product or a consumer that was fooled by the hype and trying to make themselves feel better about their purchase by getting others to agree with them.

If he has concerns about his condition he should take the car to his dealer for evaluation.

Here is my standard response to the dozens of emails I get each year with a link to a thread like you posted (and often, that very same thread).

Simply stated, absolutely not on the catch can. It simply isn’t warranted for any street driven car. We can talk in more detail about it tomorrow and Dan will appreciate it as I’ve all ready had this conversation with him as well. Since the advent of the PCV system, cars have released some oil in places where it wouldn’t normally have gone in a fully sealed system. It ends up in vapor which condenses back in to liquid form in the intake path. As a result of that, the system is designed to ingest and subsequently digest some extra oil. Higher revving produces more oil and repeated higher revving (drag racer, track duty car, etc.) would be in the realm of uses that I might consider adding the can. Daily driving, occasional back road romp or stop light to stop light burst, not so much.

With all of that said, they won’t hurt anything. For those that don’t want to take my word for it, can feel comfortable adding it but it won’t make an appreciable difference in the life of the motor or the efficiency of the system.
If you dig deep enough in to forum information about catch cans, all roads generally lead back to a performance tuner, aftermarket part supplier or fabricator who has a vested interest in selling catch cans." Stingray Consultant


Mike Furman ~
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle"
Glen e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 05:23 AM   #6
arpad_m

 
arpad_m's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 2SS A8
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,321
So GM engineering's stance is basically that CC's are mildly beneficial but unnecessary. I'd also be interested in an honest response in light of the pictures of coked up valves in LS and LT engines, either these are fake or there are vested interests on both sides and then it's unlikely that we can get one.
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS
G7E A8 NPP MRC NAV | Magnuson Heartbeat TVS2300 | Roto-Fab CAI | JMS PowerMAX voltage booster | LT5 TB | JRE custom tune
1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
arpad_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 05:59 AM   #7
ScatPack
 
ScatPack's Avatar
 
Drives: None at the moment
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Florida
Posts: 138
Nothing can technically "void" your warranty. However, GM can label a part of your car in their system as being modified. Then its up to the following dealers if they decide to push through warranty claims on said parts. By parts I mean like drivetrain and so on.
ScatPack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 06:59 AM   #8
VinnAY
 
Drives: 18 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Missouri
Posts: 463
GM: We'll stand by our product for X miles and Z years, as long as you don't F with it

Owner: but what if I do Y?

GM: ....
VinnAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 12:50 PM   #9
Silentlegion
 
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Manual (Karnage)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 50
Thanks Glen e that is some useful information.
Silentlegion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 08:15 PM   #10
bignaz
 
Drives: 2019 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 153
Catch can won't eliminate all of the oil from getting back in but it will do enough to make you glad you put it in. Some dealships are more mod friendly then others. Mine said they have no problem with the cans as long as it's not something you made from a pop bottle or bought from wish. That said when I had my torque converter in the SS replaced they said it should be fine but gm may send out an engineer to look at it so I might wanna take it off because he didn't know what guy they would send out. So 5 minutes I had it off. Not hard to take on and off.



But this is what your vavles look like of you don't get a car.
Attached Images
 
bignaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2019, 06:53 PM   #11
hotlap


 
hotlap's Avatar
 
Drives: 18 Hot Wheels 2SS M6
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 5,220
I’d guess GM’s problem with catch cans is that the owner is responsible to empty them. If the can is too full, the crankcase ventilation won’t function properly resulting in oil contamination and blown seals.
__________________
Production Number 1755
hotlap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 03:34 AM   #12
gringo
Account Suspended
 
gringo's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro V6
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: U.S.
Posts: 1,725
GM doesn't really care about the longevity of the engine. As long as it gets through the warranty
period, that's all they care about.

The coked up valves will gradually reduce power and efficiency. It probably won't be that noticeable until the car has been traded in a few times. When it gets so bad with carbon deposits that it affects the drivability, the engine will be long out of warranty and then it becomes the owners problem.

Instead is designing a fuel system to deal with this valve coking problem, like an auxillary port injection system in addition to the direct injection, they decided to take the bean counters approach and just slightly change the function of the PCV system on the LT1 to reduce carbon build up. However, even with this design change, it still does not adequately address the problem of valve coking build up over time.
gringo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 10:24 AM   #13
hotlap


 
hotlap's Avatar
 
Drives: 18 Hot Wheels 2SS M6
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 5,220
The first LT1 Corvette was delivered September 2013. 5-1/2 years ago.
The first LT1 Camaro was delivered November 2015. 3-1/2 years ago.

Has anyone seen coked up valves on one? I haven't seen anything like the photo posted above.
__________________
Production Number 1755
hotlap is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.