[Davescamaro]

Haha. I bet that owner is a typical mercedes owner lol. It's like that joke "What's the difference between a porcupine and a Mercedes? The pricks are in the inside."

[RapidRobbiesRS]

I like it. Thanks everyone for the input. I think I am at a place now where I know what I'm gonna do. The only other question I have is this:
As it relates to the bolt on upgrades, is that something I can do WITHOUT having the tune done immediately. I'm thinking yes, that I would see an immediate improvement with them and even more of one after the tune without damagaing anything. Specifically though I question the E85 upgrade. Is that something I can install and not mess up the ECM with the mixed signals before the tune takes place. I have 93 octane readily available and that is all I run. Can I install the E85 kit without tuning the ECM for it right away?

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by RapidRobbiesRS

I like it. Thanks everyone for the input. I think I am at a place now where I know what I'm gonna do. The only other question I have is this:
As it relates to the bolt on upgrades, is that something I can do WITHOUT having the tune done immediately. I'm thinking yes, that I would see an immediate improvement with them and even more of one after the tune without damagaing anything. Specifically though I question the E85 upgrade. Is that something I can install and not mess up the ECM with the mixed signals before the tune takes place. I have 93 octane readily available and that is all I run. Can I install the E85 kit without tuning the ECM for it right away?

E85 or Flex Fuel will require a tune to activate the tables. All the other bolt-ons available like CAI, Downpipe (except Catless) and OEM Location Intercooler won't need a tune but it is highly recommended. You won't see anymore power but you will have slightly earlier access to your full stock powerband so it will feel like you have more power.

[wookwook]

+1

There's a bunch of info on Gen 6 bring torque limited. In other words the demand tables will hold you to a certain max power until you edit them no matter how much snorkel you give it. The add-ons will give you little added power under the curve but until you get it to demand more boost it will be disappointing. Its just how it works.

E85 is Eb's domain and I understand it returns great return on investment. You could go with a racechip like some do to bridge the gap until 60k or 36m but its about half of what you get with a simple canned tq bump tune and there's nothing wrong with that. But warning, the power gains are addictive.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by wookwook

+1

There's a bunch of info on Gen 6 bring torque limited. In other words the demand tables will hold you to a certain max power until you edit them no matter how much snorkel you give it. The add-ons will give you little added power under the curve but until you get it to demand more boost it will be disappointing. Its just how it works.

E85 is Eb's domain and I understand it returns great return on investment. You could go with a racechip like some do to bridge the gap until 60k or 36m but its about half of what you get with a simple canned tq bump tune and there's nothing wrong with that. But warning, the power gains are addictive.

RaceChip's aren't worth the investment you can buy your own HPTuners MPVI2 and go with whatever tuner you want and get opinions for close to the same price. Obviously credits and tuning fee's are added but your better off long term hands down no debate.

BTW Wookster Tuning July 1st is Official Opening Night for NED.

[RapidRobbiesRS]

So my take away is this:
Do the add ons first to get some modest gains and deal with it like that until I'm ready to add on the E85 change over. When I do the change over, get it tuned for the E85 + the add ons and see a significant difference.
The add on don't necessarily require a tune (but it is recommended right?), but if I'm gonna add the E85 better to do it all at once rather than keep flashing the PCM unnecessarily.
Am I reading into this right?

[RapidRobbiesRS]

Is there something significant about the 60K mark? Just asking since you clearly made it a point.

[wookwook]

There is no "modest gain" with out the tune. This is gen 6 turbo land not old school LS land. There is a torque limit in the tables. From stock, you are hitting the limit of the peak allowed torque table i.e. curve. its a curve trust me. You can squash more power under the peak curve limit in the table. a little before as in exhaust, and a little after as in Jacfab. its not a lot and I had to use a microscope to see it. I have a chart on my other computer because I'm supposed to be remote working. Until you adjust the torque tables ie a tune, you wont see much noticeable gain. As the summer wears on with higher DAs you will be wondering where all the power has gone anyways.

Nah. If you are protecting warranty what ever that time is, is most peoples hesitation. Right on with the racechip, for the same money, going with the tune is way to go. EB is a hard liner if you didn't notice. If you bolt up first you can save retune work. It just depends on if you want to just get it done or hobby around for a while like some of us do. Do get 1 box and that is a peddle commander type throttle chip. I don't worry about the flash counter, once I get to 1001 maybe the dealer will miss it if I roller her on in for a new block. that's a joke. ha ha. It's not like anyone's gonna say awe.. he only flashed it once, lets give him a break. I've written my ecu about a hundred times and I still don't have the square root of pi. damn thing must be busted.

[wookwook]

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

BTW Wookster Tuning July 1st is Official Opening Night for NED.

that's just great. last I saw there where about 3000 people going to opening street night on FB.

[wookwook]

Here- this is how the torque ceiling looks. This is my borla sport tour on a base tune. I don't have a graph for the jac fab, but its safe to assume the same type of under the curve power on the top end. So yes- area under the curve power yes, peak gains no. peak gains are computer controlled. If you look it seems like the power band is bouncing off of an upper boundary, like literally bouncing off it.

Edit: this a gain measurement just after I did the Borla Exhaust compared to the stock exhaust. I suppose if you wanted to call a 10 percent gain in the 2500 to 3000 rpm region modest you could say that is reasonable.

[Davescamaro]

I also want to add something. I use torque pro app with a bluetooth obd2 plugin. I put settings (custom large gauge) and used intake pressure along with afr commanded. Before the air intake, it was reading 19.54psi, then after, 21.96psi. So I think you might get a few more psi from a few bolt ons that affect the turbos' tubing (intake or intercooler setup).
My older turbo cars I've had have increased and more responsive along with less turbo lag.
Also wanted to add, the K&N Typhoon setup, your factory bypass valve gets pretty loud and it reminds me of the old Neon SRT 4 mopar BOV lol. You can hear boost as little as 1800 rpms.

[wookwook]

Wait till you run the jacfab. Woosh.

[Davescamaro]

Originally Posted by wookwook

Wait till you run the jacfab. Woosh.

Been thinking about that bypass adapter plate. Wish they did the earlier turbo cars to add your own bov. Miss the greddy type S. Woosh with a whistle aka Brian earl spilners eclipse from fast and furious 1.

[wookwook]

yeah that stuff is ( technically ) illegal now for street application.. I guess its like if you want to emulate what the factory would have imagined vs, race ( off road) ready. Its just a personal choice. Not that I have an issue, but its just a personal choice and all experiences are o.k. with me. I just don't want to have to reinvent my car for yearly sticker.