[wheelspeed]

For those of you who did square setups, how do you like it?

Years back, I had some 80's BMWs that were easy to drive at their limits. (They had LSDs and a square setup.) Those cars were good at letting me know when they were about to start sliding. And even if it stepped out a little under engine-braking or accelerating out of a turn- nothing scary happened.

I'm hoping an SS or even a 1LE with a square setup and mediocre tires might recreate the feeling of those old, light bmws. I don't race to put food on the table, so I don't really care about ultimate corner speed. (By "mediocre tires", I mean lower cost ones with better tread life, and even all-seasons for the winter months.) I had Continental Extreme Contact DWS on my recent Mazda 3 and liked them, although I know it could be a completely different animal with such a different car as the SS or 1LE would be.

So, does a square setup get me a car that doesn't plow, but also doesn't snap-over-steer? Is it pretty well balanced front and back as far as the tires losing traction on a big sweeping on-ramp for instance?

Oh, and based on those handling traits I'm looking for, feel free to recommend the SS or 1LE. (I mean long term, so assume mediocre tires and probably a square setup on either one of those.)

[cmfhsu]

To be honest the ss 1le on track alignment is pretty dern neutral. There's minimal understeer on turn in unless you do something really dumb and I find myself fighting the back end more than the front.

I, too, came in assuming the stagger on the 1le would cause understeer, but I'm very happy with it.

[LT1ornothing]

I have the factory square 245/40/20 set up on my 2020 LT1 v8 m6, although the goodyears don't grip at all in 1st, they are surprising on the turns. I cant speak for the SS or 1LE set up for comparison as I never got a chance to push those as hard as mine. I can tell you that I am shocked a narrow all season run flat on a 3600 lbs car can bite so hard in turns, I do credit the chassis though. I cant wait to throw some serious high performance summer tires on these "Pizza cutters" haha!

[avalonandl]

I run 19 x 9.5 with Firestone Firehawks Indy 500 275/40/19 and honestly the car feels very nimble. No loss of cornering AFAIK....

I do not track.

[Alpha1BC]

Originally Posted by cmfhsu

To be honest the ss 1le on track alignment is pretty dern neutral. There's minimal understeer on turn in unless you do something really dumb and I find myself fighting the back end more than the front.

I, too, came in assuming the stagger on the 1le would cause understeer, but I'm very happy with it.

I second this. I've tried both a square 305/30R19 Nitto NT01 setup and the stock staggered setup on an SS 1LE on multiple road courses and prefer the OE setup with the track alignment. It's very close to neutral and easy to drive with the stock setup on the proper alignment, and does a good job letting you know when you're pushing a little too hard. I noticed the square setup is more prone to oversteer, especially when getting on throttle which resulted in overall slightly slower lap times. Thinking this is a combination of alignment, roll bars, and maybe even eLSD calibration not being ideal for a square setup without additional work. IMO its easier to just stick with something close to the stock stagger and go.

[cmfhsu]

I will say that despite the car's characteristics being very favorable, the ss 1le does NOT let you enjoy any of that at 5/10 (fast street pace). You may want to consider a v6 1le or something similar for lower limits. You really have to drive the piss out of the car on track before you start to feel the characteristics I'm saying.

On street, my 1le can hoon plenty well (dumb first gear skids from stop signs and such), but is absolutely boring around a backroad to me. Other folks will desperately try to keep pace, but the ss 1le is barely trying.

[shogun37]

I run 19x10 et27 on a SS 1LE
I ordered a 18x10.5 et25 to test fit as well.

[Vtor_ZL1]

3 sets of suqre, no issues.


275 Blizzak winter tires - same width wheels, different offset

285 daily PS 4S - different width wheels

305 Auto-X RE71R - different width wheels


Idea was being able to swap tires to maximize wear.. but i am realizing that is a fools game.. in daily environment, rears go first, in race, fronts go first.


So ideally... you race and daily same tires for ideal wear pattern

[Roostie]

I have the V6 1LE Camaro, which has less weight on the nose, and I really enjoy my square setups. For track and autocross, I have an 18x10 Apex FL-5 (needs spacers to clear strut) with 275/40/18, and I plan to try a 295/40 if available for my next set. Great balance, excellent results.
For street, I have 18x8.5 TR Motorsports (Tire Rack) rims with 245/50/18 Pirelli P-Zero All Season Plus tires, which I can actually have fun with on the street (limits aren't beyond reach) and are quiet and comfortable when I'm just cruising. Plus, I have used them at the track and they get surprisingly good lap times.

[FNxR3DNECK]

I for one LOVE how the SS 1LE feels with a square setup! I've been running square 305 RS4s for 2 years now and have been loving them. Will be going to square 315/30/18 Nankang AR-1s next!!! Time for MOAR grip baby

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by wheelspeed

For those of you who did square setups, how do you like it?

Years back, I had some 80's BMWs that were easy to drive at their limits. (They had LSDs and a square setup.) Those cars were good at letting me know when they were about to start sliding. And even if it stepped out a little under engine-braking or accelerating out of a turn- nothing scary happened.

I'm hoping an SS or even a 1LE with a square setup and mediocre tires might recreate the feeling of those old, light bmws. I don't race to put food on the table, so I don't really care about ultimate corner speed. (By "mediocre tires", I mean lower cost ones with better tread life, and even all-seasons for the winter months.) I had Continental Extreme Contact DWS on my recent Mazda 3 and liked them, although I know it could be a completely different animal with such a different car as the SS or 1LE would be.


So, does a square setup get me a car that doesn't plow, but also doesn't snap-over-steer? Is it pretty well balanced front and back as far as the tires losing traction on a big sweeping on-ramp for instance?

Oh, and based on those handling traits I'm looking for, feel free to recommend the SS or 1LE. (I mean long term, so assume mediocre tires and probably a square setup on either one of those.)

Well I have 305 30 19 square with MS 4S tires using a SG3 upgraded suspension and 1LE sway bars. Wheels are APEX 19 x 10.5 SM-10 ET22 which weigh a little over 24 pounds. These wheels are 2 pounds heavier than ARC 8 wheels BUT they are ALOT stronger with their IBEAM spoke construction. This factor is VERY important to me because I consistently run over the APEX markers in the corners and this has caused weaker wheels to bend.

I am by NO MEANS and expert driver in terms of road racing but I have had some EXPERT level driving instructors drive the car as well and their feedback was the car handled very neutral which was exactly my intent with this setup. It corners EXTREMELY flat and the only limitation at this point is ME!!!

I DID NOT like the stock SS set up as I felt the suspension was too soft and had way too much lean in the corners. I JUST came out of a 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE A10 and the car was a HORRIBLE car to drive as a DAILY driver. With the 3R stock tires on it, the car was DEADLY if you got caught in the rain and the tires lasted me only 1500 miles with NO TRACK use but admittedly spirited street driving. The car DID handle EXTREMELY well BUT only on a VERY smooth track. Any type of rough or bumpy road surface would unsettle the car due to the unforgiving nature in the suspension system. The bottom line is the car rode like a DUMP TRUCK.

Back to my current set up. I have had rough 30 track sessions and 9000 miles of use on my tires. I have ABOUT 60% treadwear LEFT. I AM able to rotate them and I DO. I use relatively aggressive street alignment setting of -2.2 degrees front camber and -1.5 degrees on the rear (I am going to change this to -2 degrees also on the rear). AT the track, I DO adjust my camber to -3.6 degrees on the front wheels by using VORSHLAG adjustable camber plates (it takes 10 minutes, MAYBE).

So for use as BOTH a daily driver AND a track car I wouldnt change a thing as far as the tire/wheel setup. AMP will be doing some performance upgrades to the car to push the RWP to roughly 580-600 NA from the current 500 or so power level on my 2019 SS A10.

If i ever decided to get a track use ONLY tire and wheel set up I would get a second set of wheels with Hoosier 315 30 18 R7's on APEX 18 inch wheels.

[foshjowler]

I'm a fan of square setups, if for nothing else, you can rotate the tires.

My 2.0t has a totally different balance from the SS 1LE, but it is a very well balanced car with square 305s. A couple of PSI in the rear is all it takes to change the car from a tendency to understeer to oversteer.

I've heard on the SS 1LE that it prefers a staggered setup, but I suspect that's because it's been tuned to be it's best with the factory tires. Changes in the suspension, or even alignment, will likely change that.

For a normal SS, I haven't driven one in proper anger, but I would suspect they understeer from the factory, as that's how most manufacturers tune their cars.

[Joey Soul]

I had square 275s with px1 springs and then coilovers. The rear does dance on a track day. The oem stagger for 1ss 245/275 is fairly balanced on the track (even though i have a big front sway bar when testing that) but can still swing out if desired. For me I prefer to control the rear with throttle and have balanced traction so square 305s are coming in a few weeks.

[carguy55]

I'm loving my 305 true square setup. Understeer is gone and can rotate tires to any corner for longer life