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Old 09-04-2018, 11:50 AM   #43
Snrub
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my1stchevy View Post
"Chevrolet also plans to target buyers who might otherwise opt for a Ford Focus RS, Hyundai Veloster N, Honda Civic Type R or Kia Stinger"

Never in a million years would I have considered one of these cars over any Camaro trim...Never!!!
Some people would. I've driven the 2019 Veloster Turbo and I was surprised to enjoy it more than the Mustang Ecoboost. I'm not a fan of FWD, but the shorter wheelbase is fun and it has a better handling feel. The Focus RS and CTR received great press. How many people know the Camaro V6 1LE is faster around a road course than the RS (probably even the base/non-1LE) and similar to the CTR for a lot less money?

GM's car allocation formula sucks too. When I look at local dealerships, they have a lot of high level models, even for the SS and not a lot lower options models. eg. If I search in an area containing 22M people, there are no base SS 1SS models out there. They do weird things with pricing. Last month they had $4k off (CDN=$3k USD) for cash purchases for all cars. This month 1LS models don't have it, but 1LT do. The V6 is the better base engine, but they have very few of them out there and when they do they're in automatics and with $10k of options.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
..

Like seeing where you're going? Then the Camaro isn't for you. Outward visibility is so limited that it would offend Ray Charles. ...
BS. It isn't "good", but it isn't so horrible that its completely unsafe "switch lanes on a prayer" type of visibility that some people would like for you to believe. Complete non-sense.

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Originally Posted by gpskinzhut View Post
I agree there are limitations that one shouldn't stick their head in the sand and ignore, but this paragraph is gross exaggeration.
Exactly.

We all know it IS an issue, and it does affect peoples opinions = sales, but I've driven worse. My wife used to have a 2008 Eclipse. That car is a "kid" car, yet the visibility in that thing was just as bad but I never once read a complaint about it on line.

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Originally Posted by torqueaddict View Post
Some people are simply more skilled drivers and can deal with a high beltline much better than others. I have absolutely no issues with forward visibility in this car. Not all drivers are equal.
You are correct, but this is also ignoring a real issue. Although I happen to enjoy the high beltline and the looks it gives, GM could design the next gen to have a slightly better outward view while still keeping the car as low as the current Camaro / Mustang.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:53 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post


I LOVE the 2016-18 Camaro looks, chassis, and performance, but the price for a brand new one with a V8 is just too high, especially for us guys with families just looking to buy one as a 2nd/toy car. The 2019 is ugly as sin.
When the 2016 Camaro came along, it was the expensive option.

That is no longer the case, as the others have caught up or even passed the Camaro in price.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:49 PM   #46
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Chevy needs to dig back into their archives and go back to basics. Advertise advertise advertise because thats just Bidness 101.


Last edited by MackSteelPrivateEye; 09-04-2018 at 12:49 PM. Reason: jj
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:51 PM   #47
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2018 August sales:

Mustang: 7,487 +35%
Challenger: 4,647 -26%
Camaro: 3,779 -24.7%

Last edited by Bongos2U; 09-05-2018 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:55 PM   #48
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So serious question. In the sales threads that used to happen monthly, there were a few with numbers provided by MEDISIN that essentially 28% of Mustang sales were fleet numbers, and a high number for Challenger as well.

It would seem to me, that anyone writing an article on this, where they are interviewing the head honchos for team Camaro that this point would be brought up. I did not see it mentioned anywhere, yet the vibe I got from the quotes from Al was that they are a bit concerned that they are not making a lot of headway in the lower trims. I just find it odd that it wasn't mentioned anywhere.

So despite all the posts about they don't care about volume, they don't care about sales numbers because ATP is higher some of the quotes here in this article say that they are concerned and want the sales crown back.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(

Last edited by shaffe; 09-04-2018 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
BS. It isn't "good", but it isn't so horrible that its completely unsafe "switch lanes on a prayer" type of visibility that some people would like for you to believe. Complete non-sense.



Exactly.

We all know it IS an issue, and it does affect peoples opinions = sales, but I've driven worse. My wife used to have a 2008 Eclipse. That car is a "kid" car, yet the visibility in that thing was just as bad but I never once read a complaint about it on line.



You are correct, but this is also ignoring a real issue. Although I happen to enjoy the high beltline and the looks it gives, GM could design the next gen to have a slightly better outward view while still keeping the car as low as the current Camaro / Mustang.

Visibility is a non issue with anyone confident in their ability to drive. Yet there are so many who have little or no confidence in their own driving skills in this day and age. Sad.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
So serious question. In the sales threads that used to happen monthly, there were a few with numbers provided by MEDISIN and constantly referenced by hotlap, that essentially 28% of Mustang sales were fleet numbers, and a high number for Challenger as well.

It would seem to me, that anyone writing an article on this, where they are interviewing the head honchos for team Camaro that this point would be brought up. I did not see it mentioned anywhere, yet the vibe I got from the quotes from Al was that they are a bit concerned that they are not making a lot of headway in the lower trims. I just find it odd that it wasn't mentioned anywhere.

So despite all the posts about they don't care about volume, they don't care about sales numbers because ATP is higher some of the quotes here in this article say that they are concerned and want the sales crown back.

Like much news today...it can be classified as Fake news by Omission.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye View Post
Visibility is a non issue with anyone confident in their ability to drive. Yet there are so many who have little or no confidence in their own driving skills in this day and age. Sad.
All this focus on visibility. This isn't the reason for the poor sales, the visibility was poor on the 5th Gen model as well and it sold very well. The problem is the same now as when the 6th Gen was introduced, there is no excitement in regards to the appearance of this car. While it has very impressive performance folks don't seem to care for it looks. Maybe this 19 update will help.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:43 PM   #52
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Wow! Simply wow. Resorting to personal attacks in a technical conversation.

Go ahead and review MVSS 111. You will note it is for indirect vision or mirrors. The complaint in pretty much every review that you seem to want to discount is about direct vision.

Again, a technical discussion with experience in the matter. Not slinging opinions or insults.

Again, just because it's ok for you doesn't mean it's ok for others and you should be open minded enough to understand there are, in fact, other views on visibility. But I'm guessing that you resorted to insults that you aren't able to accept others view points.
Nothing personal against you specifically but the whole "this car has bad visibility" narrative is old and an excuse for poor driving skills. I find it hard to call it an opinion because driving a car is a skill that people in general do not take seriously, at least in America.

Anyone with their driver's license, no matter their physical size or height, should be able to get out of a 2018 Accord and get into a '72 Cadillac then into a 2018 Camaro and then into a panel van and within a couple minutes be well adjusted to driving responsibly, confidently, securely, and comfortably.

I do not mince words here when I say if people have a hard time seeing out of this car, I'm not completely comfortable sharing the public roads with them.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:50 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
All this focus on visibility. This isn't the reason for the poor sales, the visibility was poor on the 5th Gen model as well and it sold very well. The problem is the same now as when the 6th Gen was introduced, there is no excitement in regards to the appearance of this car. While it has very impressive performance folks don't seem to care for it looks. Maybe this 19 update will help.
Judging from the response and attention my car gets, I have to disagree with regards to looks (not talking about the 2019 here). This car gets a lot of very positive attention from the general public. The only people I see dogging its looks are Mustang fanboys.

Practicality is the number one problem IMO. Sure the Mustang isn't much more practical but it's more recognized. When I started thinking about a new car, the Mustang was the first to pop into my head. It's got the brand recognition. People shopping for a Mustang will easily overlook practicality. The Camaro does not have that luxury, it just doesn't. It needs that practical aspect to widen its target market just like the Challenger.

The general public doesn't care about performance as much we do. Practicality, looks, gas mileage and price matter the most, and not necessarily in that order.

The Challenger and the Camaro have much more in common than the Mustang. It's just that the Challenger is a lot more practical.
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by torqueaddict View Post
Judging from the response and attention my car gets, I have to disagree with regards to looks (not talking about the 2019 here). This car gets a lot of very positive attention from the general public. The only people I see dogging its looks are Mustang fanboys.

Practicality is the number one problem IMO. Sure the Mustang isn't much more practical but it's more recognized. When I started thinking about a new car, the Mustang was the first to pop into my head. It's got the brand recognition. People shopping for a Mustang will easily overlook practicality. The Camaro does not have that luxury, it just doesn't. It needs that practical aspect to widen its target market just like the Challenger.

The general public doesn't care about performance as much we do. Practicality, looks, gas mileage and price matter the most, and not necessarily in that order.

The Challenger and the Camaro have much more in common than the Mustang. It's just that the Challenger is a lot more practical.
Maybe but above doesn't make any sense when you compare the 5th Gen sales against the 6th Gen. Performance got much better, interior much better, pricing slight increase, yet it doesn't sell?

Remember sales dropped off almost immediately after the 6th Gen release despite all of the improvements over the 5th Gen.
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:25 PM   #55
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Good evening
My name is Camaro....and I have a visibility problem.
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:30 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Maybe but above doesn't make any sense when you compare the 5th Gen sales against the 6th Gen. Performance got much better, interior much better, pricing slight increase, yet it doesn't sell?

Remember sales dropped off almost immediately after the 6th Gen release despite all of the improvements over the 5th Gen.
That has bugged me since the 6th gen released. The car is superior in every way to the car it replaced, yet hasn't sold as well.

Only thing I can think off is price + styling with the 6th gen not being enough of a departure from the 5th.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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